What is your most regrettable past belief?

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
Again I don't know the number but most of the Christians I'm close to have very different stories - parents who are/were atheists and agnostics. Growing up, I had the nice combination of an atheist father and a pagan older brother I looked up to.

Yes there are some like that. Here where I live, I know Muslims who used to be Christians, and Christians who used to be Muslims, and then there are some ex-Hindus and some 'new Hindus' etc. etc. But for the vast majority of the 260,000,000 people in this country, much like elsewhere around the world, religious adherence is about culture and it's about geography, and is 'handed down' from generation to generation. Same in the U.S.

Originally posted by @fmf
Yes there are some like that. Here where I live, I know Muslims who used to be Christians, and Christians who used to be Muslims, and then there are some ex-Hindus and some 'new Hindus' etc. etc. But for the vast majority of the 260,000,000 people in this country, much like elsewhere around the world, religious adherence is about culture and it's about geography, and is 'handed down' from generation to generation. Same in the U.S.

Religious adherence and belief are two different things. I’d wager a lot of people who self identify as Christians probably aren’t in reality because you don’t go through any sort of man-made conversion ritual to be a Christian. I suspect you do if you want to be a member of other major world religions.

Originally posted by @fmf
If you're are referring to my experience, the lesson is not that it was fun and then later it was not fun, but rather that a person can find themselves not standing up for their actual values because of the people around them.

I was referring to my own experience and it was fun, then it wasn't.

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
I don't know what the number is, but if anyone's faith hinges entirely upon what they hear from their parents then it boils down to brainwashing, lying to themselves, or perhaps the worst of all: being too afraid or too lazy to seriously consider the matter - willful ignorance..

Your fellow Christians around the world will be able to hear you beating your holy hairy chest even before they can see the whites of your eyes.

Originally posted by @fmf
Your fellow Christians around the world will be able to hear you beating your holy hairy chest even before they can see the whites of your eyes.

And the pool whizzing begins...

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
I don't know what the number is, but if anyone's faith hinges entirely upon what they hear from their parents then it boils down to brainwashing, lying to themselves, or perhaps the worst of all: being too afraid or too lazy to seriously consider the matter - willful ignorance.

Will the faith in Jesus that such Christians have not "save" them?

Originally posted by @fmf
Will the faith in Jesus that such Christians have not "save" them?

Belief in the heart - a sincere, genuine, self-sacrificing belief - is what’s required, Kiddo. What you’re classifying as “faith” doesn’t sound like that.

See John 3:16 and Romans 10:9.

Originally posted by @fmf
Will the faith in Jesus that such Christians have not "save" them?

The Bible is quite clear that faith alone will not save anybody.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
The Bible is quite clear that faith alone will not save anybody.

There is polling data on how “clear” this faith + works requirement is to Christians. It’s closer than it seems.

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2017/08/31/poll-most-protestants-and-catholics-believe-faith-and-works-are-necessary

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
The Bible is quite clear that faith alone will not save anybody.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

(John 3:16)

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

(Romans 10:9)

Originally posted by @romans1009
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

(John 3:16)

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

(Romans 10:9)

"Yeah but James said....... [fill in the blank]."

Yes, James said without works, faith is dead. That means if one professes faith but does not do any good works, then their profession of faith is false. It doesn't mean we are not justified by faith alone. So no. The bible is not "clear" on justification by works.

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
"Yeah but James said....... [fill in the blank]."

Yes, James said without works, faith is dead. That means if one professes faith but does not do any good works, then their profession of faith is false. It doesn't mean we are not justified by faith alone. So no. The bible is not "clear" on justification by works.

Amen, brother.

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
"Yeah but James said....... [fill in the blank]."

Yes, James said without works, faith is dead. That means if one professes faith but does not do any good works, then their profession of faith is false. It doesn't mean we are not justified by faith alone. So no. The bible is not "clear" on justification by works.

I think equating 'dead' with 'false' is an erroneous understanding of the text. James is quite clear in his meaning.

Death 'follows' birth. If a Christian wasn't actually born again (due to an absence of good works) then how can their faith be said to die? (If it was never born in the first place).

There 'can' be genuine faith 'without works' but such faith is insufficient to save. (It is a dead faith).


The Ghost has spoken wisely.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I think equating 'dead' with 'false' is an erroneous understanding of the text. James is quite clear in his meaning.

Death 'follows' birth. If a Christian wasn't actually born again (due to an absence of good works) then how can their faith be said to die? (If it was never born in the first place).

There 'can' be genuine faith 'without works ...[text shortened]... but such faith is insufficient to save. (It is a dead faith).


The Ghost has spoken wisely.

I think you’re getting way too carried away with your metaphors and have wrongly concluded, Heartpence.

For what you say to be true, you must explain why the thief on the cross was saved based on faith alone (no good works) and explain the disposition of one who accepts Christ on their deathbed (or dies shortly thereafter.)

Salvation is by faith alone. Good works and an aversion to sin are simply evidence of salvation and the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit in a believer.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I think equating 'dead' with 'false' is an erroneous understanding of the text. James is quite clear in his meaning.

Death 'follows' birth. If a Christian wasn't actually born again (due to an absence of good works) then how can their faith be said to die? (If it was never born in the first place).

There 'can' be genuine faith 'without works ...[text shortened]... but such faith is insufficient to save. (It is a dead faith).


The Ghost has spoken wisely.

You just argued that dead faith can be genuine. Lies can be genuine too, but they are still false. Dead faith is false faith. We are justified by faith. Abraham was declared righteous (justified) by his faith. Look it up.