Originally posted by @tom-wolsey"Scroll through hundreds [thousands?] of messages"? The comment by Romans1009 that was deleted by the website was on this thread a few pages back.
I'm sure that's something you would take note of. So you can cross that one off your list. Let us know what else you find out as you scroll through the hundreds (thousands?) of messages in your endeavor to dig up dirt on people.
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @fmfYes. You behave like an adolescent. Ceaselessly combing through the threads, hand-selecting posts long since forgotten by everyone else--and propping them up for scrutiny--twisting the words into something you want them to say so you can falsely accuse others. Hey, it's not like I'm telling you anything new. You've been called out by several people the last couple of days.
"Like a 12 year old"?
Here's what was said:
Wolfgang59 (an atheist): [b]Amazing the $hit you believe from parents! ... like there is a god
Tom Wolsey: Mom died when I was 3, and Dad was an atheist. I transitioned from atheist to Christian when I was 37. Got anything else in your arsenal?
Wolfgang59: What have your dead mom and atheist ...[text shortened]... implications for the faith/religion you profess. This is the right forum for this conversation.
I said "if anyone's faith hinges entirely upon what they hear from their parents"
You twisted it into "so if someone has adopted their parents' faith" -- strike one. If people adopt the same faith as their parents, it's not the same as them hinging their belief solely and completely on what their parents told them. Genuine faith is more than words uttered to you when you are a child. And you know that, but that didn't keep you from trying to pit me against others, did it.
Then you added [regarding people with the same genuine faith as their parents]: "they believe... but have not seriously considered the matter... you don't really see them as fellow Christians?"
I know you're excited to drive a wedge between me and any Christian in this forum that has Christian parents, but discerning Christians will see right through it. There is no such thing as a person with genuine faith, who truly believes, that never seriously considered the matter. And that's just a fact. Take a poll and find out. Ask every Christian in the forum.
Originally posted by @tom-wolseySo just to be clear, if a someone has adopted the Christian faith because it was their parents' faith ~ so they believe in Jesus Christ etc. ~ but they did not become Christians as a result of "seriously considering the matter", do you see them as being your fellow Christians?
Yes. You behave like an adolescent. Ceaselessly combing through the threads, hand-selecting posts long since forgotten by everyone else--and propping them up for scrutiny--twisting the words into something you want them to say so you can falsely accuse others. Hey, it's not like I'm telling you anything new. You've been called out by several p ...[text shortened]... tter.[/i] And that's just a fact. Take a poll and find out. Ask every Christian in the forum.
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyIf someone believes in Jesus Christ as a result of brainwashing, do you believe they can be "saved" nevertheless?
I don't know what the number is, but if anyone's faith hinges entirely upon what they hear from their parents then it boils down to brainwashing, lying to themselves, or perhaps the worst of all: being too afraid or too lazy to seriously consider the matter - willful ignorance.
Originally posted by @fmfAnd there you go again. Your dishonest question has a false, made up premise. But that's ok. Keep the dialogue going. You need fresh material in your Tom folder.
So just to be clear, if a someone has adopted the Christian faith because it was their parents' faith ~ so they believe in Jesus Christ etc. ~ but they did not become Christians as a result of "seriously considering the matter", do you see them as being your fellow Christians?
Your question reminds me of another similar question: "Did God say you're not to eat of any tree in the garden?" A question based on a false premise which prompted Eve to correct him... starting the dialogue. And on from there.
Yeah, we've seen this old, tired routine before. I saw it a lot back in the day but folks grew up and stopped doing it. You're a real throwback to the old days. Truly breathtaking.
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyWhy not just answer it, adjusting the premise as necessary? The question arises organically out of what you said and your demeanour with regard to Christianity and fellow Christians. Just tackle the question: this is a discussion and debate forum. You are being engaged about your stated beliefs.
And there you go again. Your dishonest question has a false, made up premise. But that's ok. Keep the dialogue going. You need fresh material in your Tom folder.
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyDo you see the kind of Christians I am referring to as being fellow Christians or not?
Your question reminds me of another similar question: "Did God say you're not to eat of any tree in the garden?" A question based on a false premise which prompted Eve to correct him... starting the dialogue. And on from there.
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolsey"Folks grew up"? The "old days"?
Yeah, we've seen this old, tired routine before. I saw it a lot back in the day but folks grew up and stopped doing it. You're a real throwback to the old days. Truly breathtaking.
If people adhere to their forefathers' Christian beliefs because that was how they were raised and that's what the people around them did, and if they do this [believe in Jesus Christ] without doing much "serious consideration" of these beliefs, can they still be "saved" and gain everlasting life, do you think?
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Originally posted by @fmfI think you lost him, Kiddo. Isn’t it a shame you’re pretending to ignore me? I used to play with you for hours, sometimes all night.
"Folks grew up"? The "old days"?
If people adhere to their forefathers' Christian beliefs because that was how they were raised and that's what the people around them did, and if they do this [believe in Jesus Christ] without doing much "serious consideration" of these beliefs, can they still be "saved" and gain everlasting life, do you think?
But then you got mad for no reason and decided to give me the silent treatment (as opposed to actually ignoring me) and now you’ve got no one to play with.
Sad!
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyI get that it's a question that you do not care for, but that hardly makes it "dishonest". And to call its premise "made up" seems a bit redundant at best, but more like a non-sequitur. I am simply referring to the very same Christians that you were referring to: Christians whose faith was 'handed down' to them by their parents and which may not have been subjected to much seriously consideration.
Your dishonest question has a false, made up premise.
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Originally posted by @tom-wolseyFaith without works is like a rose without water. It is destined to 'perish.' (Words chosen carefully). The assumption that good works inevitably follow faith is a dangerous one, clearly not evidenced in the world we live in. There are many 'genuine believers' who fail to act as God would wish them to act. They remain freewill operatives still responsible for their own actions and not divine puppets automatically carrying out good works.
You just argued that dead faith can be genuine. Lies can be genuine too, but they are still false. Dead faith is false faith. We are justified by faith. Abraham was declared righteous (justified) by his [b]faith. Look it up.[/b]
Edit: Some joker will of course reference the thief on the cross, but he was just as likely an “erring child of God,” already within the cliche. ( He certainly had a lot of knowledge about Jesus). Feel free to evidence otherwise.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeYou’re falling into the same trap amigo falls into, Heartpence.
Faith without works is like a rose without water. It is destined to 'perish.' (Words chosen carefully). The assumption that good works inevitably follow faith is a dangerous one, clearly not evidenced in the world we live in. There are many 'genuine believers' who fail to act as God would wish them to act. They remain freewill operatives still responsible for their own actions and not divine puppets automatically carrying out good works.
Without defining or quantifying “good works,” such a doctrine is meaningless as everyone does at least one good work in a relatively short amount of time (depending on how “good work” is defined.)
It’s also meaningless because it suggests (actually requires) that one’s eternal destination be determined after death and there is nothing in the Bible to support that and much in the Bible to support that one can know one is a child of God while still on the earth.
Faith without works is, as Tom pointed out earlier, not a genuine faith at all.
And if faith alone did not save someone, how to explain Jesus telling the thief on the cross next to Him that the thief would be in paradise with Jesus after the thief only expressed belief in Jesus (no good works.)
Salvation by works is a false doctrine.
When FMF asks you something about yourself that you dislike... He's literally keeping a mental checklist.
I once confessed in a thread that I drink too much and oen fo the first things that he did is, in another thread, accuse me of being drunk.
I am literally a recovering alcoholic.
Dive also did the same -- true Christian spirit there.
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaI suggest you don't post when you've had a bottle of vodka and several beers ~ assuming you were telling the truth ~ which was the excuse you used for some silly posts a couple of months back. Personally, if I drink even just one beer, I steer clear of this message board. I remember you trying to invite yourself here to Indonesia to hang out with me and be my friend. I wish you well with your attempt to get on the wagon. I've had people close to me go through it.
I am literally a recovering alcoholic.
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02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaI don’t remember accusing you of being drunk; are you sure you’re not making this up?
When FMF asks you something about yourself that you dislike... He's literally keeping a mental checklist.
I once confessed in a thread that I drink too much and oen fo the first things that he did is, in another thread, accuse me of being drunk.
I am literally a recovering alcoholic.
Dive also did the same -- true Christian spirit there.
I have accused you of holding racist beliefs, which you do.