14 Nov 17
Originally posted by @sonshipC'mom jaywill. You put the "blame" squarely on the "fallen state" of man - which ultimately puts the blame on Adam and Eve. As such, in your mind "they" are responsible for your "abject guilt and failure". How is this not true?People believe in the "the redemptive death of Christ" because it is self-serving to do so. It's a way to avoid having to take responsibility for ones character and actions.
The moment that night when I allowed Jesus to be Lord and confessed I was helpless without Him, was the night I TOOK responsibility for being a sinner.
Please don ...[text shortened]... No, no thinkofone. When you acknowledge [b]"Lord Jesus" the blame game has come to an end.[/b]
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14 Nov 17
Originally posted by @thinkofoneIn fairness sir, most people here fail to understand your pedantic twist on context.
You're thanking GoaD because he also fails to understand "context"?
I guess some people take solace wherever they can get it.
I'm not even sure I understand your approach to the bible, on the one hand highlighting its contradictions and shortcomings, and on the other giving credence to the words of Jesus (while he walked the Earth) which somehow (magically) avoided the fate of other biblical texts.
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Originally posted by @thinkofoneYou put the "blame" squarely on the "fallen state" of man
C'mom jaywill. You put the "blame" squarely on the "fallen state" of man - which ultimately puts the blame on Adam and Eve. As such, in your mind "they" are responsible for your "abject guilt and failure". How is this not true?
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Your criticism doesn't make much sense.
Each individual is called to repent regardless of the fact the Adam initiated this degradation.
Where in the New Testament does Adam's disobedience make my repentance unnecessary?
Your next post will identify the location that teaching for us.
- which ultimately puts the blame on Adam and Eve.
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The blame for my refusal to repent is not shifted to Adam and Eve.
You're making up "Christian" theology out of your imaginary whole cloth.
Where in any preaching of Jesus Christ is there the concept that Adam and Eve make it unnecessary for sinners to repent?
As such, in your mind "they" are responsible for your "abject guilt and failure". How is this not true?
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Let's go back to the early chapters of Genesis with Cain.
Show me God excusing Cain because father and mother initiated the rebellion and fall?
I didn't notice God winking and shrugging at Cain's murder of his brother.
Is that how your Bible records it?
Fast forward up to the New Testament. John the Baptist followed by Christ - both preaching.
" ... Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." (Matt. 3:2 See also 4:17)
Where is the proof that neither John the Baptist or Jesus the Son of God did not expect INDIVIDUALS to "repent" at the administration of God, the kingdom of the heavens?
"Adam and Eve make me not responsible to turn and repent" is some bogus crackpot theology you ingested from some dupe.
14 Nov 17
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeNo surprise that you fail to "understand [my] approach to the Bible". Over the years you've shown that you fail to understand a lot of things.
In fairness sir, most people here fail to understand your pedantic twist on context.
I'm not even sure I understand your approach to the bible, on the one hand highlighting its contradictions and shortcomings, and on the other giving credence to the words of Jesus (while he walked the Earth) which somehow (magically) avoided the fate of other biblical texts.
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14 Nov 17
Originally posted by @thinkofoneIt's true there is a divergence in our knowledge base, my own coming from study and reflection, yours from misunderstanding and wishful thinking.
No surprise that you fail to "understand [my] approach to the Bible". Over the years you've shown that you fail to understand a lot of things.
14 Nov 17
Originally posted by @sonshipFocus Jaywill. You didn't answer the question.
[b]You put the "blame" squarely on the "fallen state" of man
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Your criticism doesn't make much sense.
Each individual is called to repent regardless of the fact the Adam initiated this degradation.
Where in the New Testament does Adam's disobedience make my repent ...[text shortened]... sponsible [/b] to turn and repent" is some bogus crackpot theology you ingested from some dupe.[/b]
Where did I say anything about repentance?
This is what you do. You create straw men and then attack them. If you don't know what that is, then google it.
14 Nov 17
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukelol. Good one.
It's true there is a divergence in our knowledge base, my own coming from study and reflection, yours from misunderstanding and wishful thinking.
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"Adam and Eve make me not responsible to turn and repent" is some bogus crackpot theology you ingested from some dupe.
Okay, that is put by me a little disrespectfully. I will rephrase it. Sorry.
I cannot converse right now. But latter perhaps we will continue along the line of the Christians' responsibility.
Generally, I get it that you are teaching that accepting Christ's redemptive work is scape- goating and shirking ethical responsibility. We will continue along this charge perhaps latter in the day.
But I'll tell you - The New Testament itself doesn't support your complaint.
And the New Testament is the Christian's foundation document.
14 Nov 17
Originally posted by @sonshipFrom wiki:"Adam and Eve make me not responsible to turn and repent" is some bogus crackpot theology you ingested from some dupe.
Okay, that is put by me a little disrespectfully. I will rephrase it. Sorry.
I cannot converse right now. But latter perhaps we will continue along the line of the Christians' responsibility.
Generally, I get it that ...[text shortened]... f doesn't support your complaint.
And the New Testament is the Christian's foundation document.
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man"😉 and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man"😉 instead of the opponent's proposition.
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14 Nov 17
Originally posted by @thinkofoneWhat does this have to do with anything ?
From wiki:A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of ha ...[text shortened]... of that false argument ("knock down a straw man"😉 instead of the opponent's proposition.
Argument - the fall from the disobedience of Adam absolves the believer in it from responsibility.
The rebuttal - If that is in the Bible, show it. Cain is a good enough place to start as the first descendant of Adam after Adam's fall.
14 Nov 17
3 edits
Originally posted by @sonshipThe quote from wiki was in the hope that you would refrain from continuing to create straw men.
What does this have to do with anything ?
Argument - the fall from the disobedience of Adam absolves the believer in it from responsibility.
The rebuttal - If that is in the Bible, show it. Cain is a good enough place to start as the first descendant of Adam after Adam's fall.
Hope which was dashed with your post.
The argument you put forth wasn't my argument. For that, you'd need to refer to my earlier post. YOUR argument is a straw man.
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14 Nov 17
1 edit
Explain how showing that throughout the whole of Scripture sinful man is never absolved from the need for repentance to God - is a "straw man argument". That is a straw man argument against the charge that God's act of redemption absolves man from responsibility towards God.
14 Nov 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @sonshipThe argument you wrote earler and repeated here is not the same thing as what I wrote:
Explain how showing that throughout the whole of Scripture sinful man is never absolved from the need for repentance to God - is a "straw man argument". That is a straw man argument against the charge that God's act of redemption absolves man from responsibility towards God.
People believe in the "the redemptive death of Christ" because it is self-serving to do so. It's a way to avoid having to take responsibility for ones character and actions.
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C'mom jaywill. You put the "blame" squarely on the "fallen state" of man - which ultimately puts the blame on Adam and Eve. As such, in your mind "they" are responsible for your "abject guilt and failure". How is this not true?