Who do you say that I am?

Originally posted by jaywill
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Jesus doesn't fit several of the details in the chapter. a) As mentioned above, Jesus was never sick.
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Isaiah 53:3 says "Surely He has borne our sicknesses". The point here is not that He was sick but that in the eyes of God He has borne our sicknesses. Just as the ...[text shortened]... have not believed though the prophet has spoken.[/b]

a truly honest and impartial attempt jaywill, well done!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
a truly honest and impartial attempt jaywill, well done!

What a brainless circle jerk you "Christians" have going.

Originally posted by jaywill
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Jesus doesn't fit several of the details in the chapter. a) As mentioned above, Jesus was never sick. Some say that he was sick during the crucifixion, but physical trauma (e.g. execution) is not considered sickness in the normal sense of the word. b) Jesus had no children. Some say this refers to disciples or spi rth writings of the Jewish religion to reinforce his atheism.

A strange phenomenon.[/b]

Why wouldn't I go to Jewish sources to refute the notion that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah i.e. the Anointed One mentioned at times (though a lot less then claimed here) in the Tanakh?

So tell me, jaywill: where in the Tanakh does it say it will require more than one Coming for the Messiah to accomplish his tasks?

Originally posted by no1marauder
What a brainless circle jerk you "Christians" have going.

you know, after your comments im gonna find it real hard to take you serious now, so you better redeem yourself by posting something with content rather than insults, because believe me, it does youre case no good whatsoever.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you know, after your comments im gonna find it real hard to take you serious now, so you better redeem yourself by posting something with content rather than insults, because believe me, it does youre case no good whatsoever.

Why would I care if one of the most close minded, uninformed posters on this Forum "took me serious" or not?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Why wouldn't I go to Jewish sources to refute the notion that Jesus was the [b]Jewish Messiah i.e. the Anointed One mentioned at times (though a lot less then claimed here) in the Tanakh?

So tell me, jaywill: where in the Tanakh does it say it will require more than one Coming for the Messiah to accomplish his tasks?[/b]

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Why wouldn't I go to Jewish sources to refute the notion that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah i.e. the Anointed One mentioned at times (though a lot less then claimed here) in the Tanakh?
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During the Exodus you could also consult with "Jewish sources" like Korah and 200 dignitaries. They wanted to stone Moses and take the people back to Egypt.

During the reign of King Saul, you could consult with "Jewish sources" like Saul. He wanted to murder David and was insane with paranoia that David was conspiring against him. This "expert" Jewish source killed scores of priests and consulted with mediums.

During Jeremiah's time you could also listen to "Jewish sources" and totally rebel against God's speaking through Jeremiah. He was unpopular because he was saying that the Babylonian Captivity was a discipline from God that the Jews must submit to.

Jewish sources had the prophet thrown in prison to starve for such prophecies. Jewish sources cast him into the letrine to humliate him for saying such things.

The Old Testament is full of "Jewish sources" which didn't receive God's speaking.

You could consult "Jewish sources" which made the golden calf in unbelief while Moses was too long up on the mountain.

By the way. Peter, Matthew, Paul, John, James, Jude, Mark ... these too were "Jewish sources".

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So tell me, jaywill: where in the Tanakh does it say it will require more than one Coming for the Messiah to accomplish his tasks?
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I'll comment latter probably.

Originally posted by no1marauder
What a brainless circle jerk you "Christians" have going.

I have noticed you from the very start of my reading these forums. I was once tempted to write down all the names that you call people...me included. But, it was too demoralizing so I did not make an attempt. Perhaps some day you will be asked to give an account of your speech and the contempt behind your words. Christians try to be polite. They have shown you more than a little patience time and time again. They have even defended me against your attacks and the attacks of other crude fellows, knowing that I am an elderly woman who might merit a little respect for that even if you disagree with my views. Yes, we Christians have a bond and a fellowship that you cannot possibly understand. You may deride us all you wish....and I know that you take great pleasure in doing so...but you cannot take that away from us.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Why would I care if one of the most close minded, uninformed posters on this Forum "took me serious" or not?

awe whats up wid da bad ol putty cat, did we not accept his reasoning? oh there there ol putty cat, it will be alright in the morning, don't worry, you will wake up, go to your pc and realize that it was just a nightmare, you didn't really expect us to believe that Jesus talked too much, you never really expected us to accept the testimony that Christ after having been spat upon, subjected to slapping and beatings, scourged and bloody was good in appearance, that being so popular lead to his impalement, no rest assured that with full confidence you may post such drivel and expect us to accept it on the basis that you are so erudite and we are poor imbeciles, even now, it is to laugh.😀

really thanks for the entertainment, top notch!

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]====================================
Why wouldn't I go to Jewish sources to refute the notion that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah i.e. the Anointed One mentioned at times (though a lot less then claimed here) in the Tanakh?
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During the Exodus you could also consult with "Jewish sources" like Korah and 200 s?
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I'll comment latter probably.[/b]

Another effort in misdirection. None of that rubbish is relevant to the point in question which is, quite simply, that Jesus does not fit the description of the Messiah given in the Tanakh. In order to do so, he has to fulfill all of the tasks given the Messiah and he clearly failed to do so. Even though the NT was written well knowing the requirements of the Tanakh and its writers could easily cook up incidents that supposedly fit some prophecies described (after all there are no contemporary written records of Jesus' life) and even though Jesus himself was aware of the prophecies and could pattern his behavior accordingly (like entering Jerusalem on a donkey - assuming that is true), the bottom line is Jesus' life fails to fulfill Messianic requirements.

I'm sure you'll come up with another pilfered post from unattributed sources attempting to explain why the so-called Christ failed to establish God's Kingdom on earth, end war, etc. etc. etc. But your thinly veiled attacks on Jews fails to give a rational reason why all but a scant handful of 1st Century Jews rejected the claims of Jesus' followers that he was the Messiah detailed in the Tanakh. Their reasons are clearly based in the text of that document; your "arguments" to the contrary are clearly based on nothing more than your own preconceptions based on spoon fed dogma.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
awe whats up wid da bad ol putty cat, did we not accept his reasoning? oh there there ol putty cat, it will be alright in the morning, don't worry, you will wake up, go to your pc and realize that it was just a nightmare, you didn't really expect us to believe that Jesus talked too much, you never really expected us to accept the testimony that Chri ...[text shortened]... poor imbeciles, even now, it is to laugh.😀

really thanks for the entertainment, top notch!

Idiots often laugh at the most inappropriate things; it's a sign of their idiocy.

Your childish attempts at goading are about par with your childish attempts at plagiarism and your even more childish attempts at argumentation. It's hard to take seriously someone who is too lazy to come up with their own thoughts. And you really need to study the rules of punctuation (a spell checker wouldn't hurt either).

Originally posted by ale1552
I have noticed you from the very start of my reading these forums. I was once tempted to write down all the names that you call people...me included. But, it was too demoralizing so I did not make an attempt. Perhaps some day you will be asked to give an account of your speech and the contempt behind your words. Christians try to be polite. They have shown ...[text shortened]... ....and I know that you take great pleasure in doing so...but you cannot take that away from us.

A bond based on self-delusion and lies is not one worth sharing. The "Christians" on this Forum are some of the most obnoxious, judgmental, ill-informed and arrogant SOBs I've ever had the misfortune to deal with. Some of them, like RC, clearly try to make up for their stunning lack of knowledge with bluster. Many resort to plagiarism. An ugly group for you to claim kinship with.

Originally posted by no1marauder
A bond based on self-delusion and lies is not one worth sharing. The "Christians" on this Forum are some of the most obnoxious, judgmental, ill-informed and arrogant SOBs I've ever had the misfortune to deal with. Some of them, like RC, clearly try to make up for their stunning lack of knowledge with bluster. Many resort to plagiarism. An ugly group for you to claim kinship with.

Your list of names and adjectives grows and grows...a non-ending spewing forth of hatred and venom. I do not claim fellowship with all whom you label "Christian", by the way. But, is there not such a thing as decency and respect in debating those you do not agree with? Why all this malice?

Originally posted by no1marauder
A bond based on self-delusion and lies is not one worth sharing. The "Christians" on this Forum are some of the most obnoxious, judgmental, ill-informed and arrogant SOBs I've ever had the misfortune to deal with. Some of them, like RC, clearly try to make up for their stunning lack of knowledge with bluster. Many resort to plagiarism. An ugly group for you to claim kinship with.

This is getting way off topic and decending into unpleasantness.

Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and some personal respect for thier beliefs aren't they(?).

Part of the point of this thread (for me) is that it is the question Jesus asked Peter, which he qualified by saying "blessed are you Peter because flesh and blood has not revealed this to you". Jesus was well versed in the Hebrew writings and he "opened thier eyes to see him revealled in the scriptures".

Originally posted by no1marauder
A bond based on self-delusion and lies is not one worth sharing. The "Christians" on this Forum are some of the most obnoxious, judgmental, ill-informed and arrogant SOBs I've ever had the misfortune to deal with. Some of them, like RC, clearly try to make up for their stunning lack of knowledge with bluster. Many resort to plagiarism. An ugly group for you to claim kinship with.

'I say also to you at present. I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.' john 13:33

you will notice that it cannot possibly be based on self delusion and lies, why not? because love is expressed in acts. therefore how does one delude oneself with an act of say kindness or self sacrifice? can being supportive be described as being ill informed and delusional? clearly no. therefore what are we to make of the bad ol putty cats statement, other than it goes beyond the scope of reason and that the very accusations and insults that are directed towards us are nothing more than a reflection of a bitter and contorted being, deluded with self importance and pretense of knowledge, for that love builds up while knowledge itself puffs up, is also biblical, thus lacking humility he has no recourse to decency and civility but spews forth a torrent of lies and venomous accusations. if only he had learned that if you have all the knowledge in the world, but did not have love, you would become like a clashing cymbal.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Another effort in misdirection. None of that rubbish is relevant to the point in question which is, quite simply, that Jesus does not fit the description of the Messiah given in the Tanakh. In order to do so, he has to fulfill [b]all of the tasks given the Messiah and he clearly failed to do so. Even though the NT was written well knowing the require are clearly based on nothing more than your own preconceptions based on spoon fed dogma.[/b]

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Another effort in misdirection. None of that rubbish is relevant to the point in question which is, quite simply, that Jesus does not fit the description of the Messiah given in the Tanakh.
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To you it may be rubbish because you do not have your sins forgiven. They are still on your conscience. You have no fellowship with God. You do not have peace towards God. So none of these matters about Him bearing your sins has any meaning to you personally.

You have not benefitted from what the Suffering Servant has done for you. You could have experienced this without knowing Isaiah 53.

Your sins have made a seperation between you and God. The obstacle of your own seperation enfluences you to think that Isaiah 53 pointing to the Savior Christ is rubbish.

You will die in your sins unless you believe in Christ's redemption for you. You say you refuse to pray. Thankfully that has not stopped someone else from praying for you.

Man needs more than a high IQ and a bright mind able to form arguments to meet God. He needs revelation.


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In order to do so, he has to fulfill all of the tasks given the Messiah and he clearly failed to do so.
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God fulfills all His tasks. He may not do so all at one time. There is not the slightest doubt in me that Isaiah 53 points to Jesus Christ.

God desires all men to be saved. Count God's delay as giving you an opportunity to be saved.

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Even though the NT was written well knowing the requirements of the Tanakh and its writers could easily cook up incidents that supposedly
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Too many things would have been impossible for Jesus to "cook up".

Do you think He hung on the cross and asked the soldiers to please cast lots for His garment? Too many things He could have had no control over. But they happened in connection to His life and death.

Your attitude is sick with the suspicion that someone is pulling the wool over your eyes.

As a man thinks so is he. The one filled with schemes and manuevors is yourself. The Christian Gospel is not trying to hoodwink you.

I suggested that you had deep and long prayer concerning these things. You despitefully refused. Thankfully, that does not prevent others from praying for you.


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fit some prophecies described (after all there are no contemporary written records of Jesus' life) and even though Jesus himself was aware of the prophecies and could pattern his behavior accordingly (like entering Jerusalem on a donkey - assuming that is true), the bottom line is Jesus' life fails to fulfill Messianic requirements.
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Entering into Jerusalem on a donkey He could have control over. He could not have control over being born in Bethlehem and many other things.

God alone could have control over those matters.

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I'm sure you'll come up with another pilfered post from unattributed sources attempting to explain why the so-called Christ failed to establish God's Kingdom on earth, end war, etc. etc. etc. But your thinly veiled attacks on Jews fails to give a rational reason why all but a scant handful of 1st Century Jews rejected the claims of Jesus' followers that he was the Messiah detailed in the Tanakh. Their reasons are clearly based in the text of that document; your "arguments" to the contrary are clearly based on nothing more than your own preconceptions based on spoon fed dogma.
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One more skeptical atheist will not be able to defeat the glorious Gospel of Christ. Your existence is simply making the whole matter all the more interesting.

"When the Christ comes will He do more signs than this man has done?" said some of the Jews.

Just as the Berlin Wall fell changing the course of expected history, so people like you will be dumbfounded when Israel turns to recognize her Messiah.

Just as the unthinkable happened, the Soviet Empire broke up, so you'll be dumbfounded when Israel abandons her unbelief and embraces Jesus as her Messiah.

This is not a political statement. This is a statement of the tremendous changes that can occur in history.

Your opposition is simply making it all the more intriguing. Because "He who believes on Him shall not be put to shame."