why not?
disclaimer:please note that all references sited are from external sources and in no way whatsoever are to be regarded as robbie carrobies own work, but merely illustrate his point of view. Any similarity to the name, character and history of any person, living or dead, is entirely coincidental and unintentional.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRead the edited post.
why not?
disclaimer:please note that all references sited are from external sources and in no way whatsoever are to be regarded as robbie carrobies own work, but merely illustrate his point of view. Any similarity to the name, character and history of any person, living or dead, is entirely coincidental and unintentional.
And grow up.
EDIT: What version are you using? I went through a half dozen on biblegateway.com including the KJV, NIV, Young's etc. and can't find any with the words "Son of the Living God".
Originally posted by no1marauderi am not a trinitarian, but i still hold that it is entirely biblical that Christ was a divine being prior to becoming a human, i will need to check other translation to get a fuller appraisal of the text.
The passage in the American Standard Version is:
27 And Jesus went forth, and his disciples, into the villages of Caesarea Philippi: and on the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Who do men say that I am?
28 And they told him, saying, John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but others, One of the prophets.
29 And he asked them, But ...[text shortened]... is the Son of God implies that they themselves are God (I thought you weren't a Trinitarian?).
disclaimer:please note that all references sited are from external sources and in no way whatsoever are to be regarded as robbie carrobies own work, but merely illustrate his point of view. Any similarity to the name, character and history of any person, living or dead, is entirely coincidental and unintentional.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMark was written in Greek and the word in question is:
my goodness you are correct, this needs further investigation! i have about forty different translation at home, a few interlinear, both Greek and Hebrew
χριστος noun - nominative singular masculine
Christos khris-tos': anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus -- Christ.
http://scripturetext.com/mark/8-29.htm
Nothing about any "Son of the Living God".
EDIT: Go to the link; the Greek word doesn't paste to this forum.
ah, now i know why? i was looking at a cross reference in the book of Matthew, which states in most translations, i shall use the king James for reference, And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16 veres 16.
therefore it would seem that the statement may have some credence after all.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe are talking about the Gospel of Mark, not the later Gospel of Matthew which undoubtedly claims divinity (at least of some sort) to Jesus.
ah, now i know why? i was looking at a cross reference in the book of Matthew, which states in most translations, i shall use the king James for reference, And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16 veres 16.
therefore it would seem that the statement may have some credence after all.
Originally posted by rwingett===================================
4) He said something, but no one understood him properly.
4) He said something, but no one understood him properly.
===================================
He said something but we'd rather not hear it. So we say nobody understands.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung=============================
Jesus didn't say he was anyone in Mark 8:29. Peter said he was the Christ.
Jesus didn't say he was anyone in Mark 8:29. Peter said he was the Christ.
================================
Let's look:
And He questioned them, But you, who do you say that I am? Peter answered and said to Him. You are the Christ ! (v.29)
And He charged them not to tell anyone concerning Him. (v.30)
And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed and after three days rise. (v31)
... For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man also will be ashamed of him when He comes in the gory of His Father with the holy angels," (v.38)
1.) He is the Son of Man
2.) He is the Son of Man who will be rejected, killed, and rise on the third day.
3.) He is the Son of Man who will come again in the glory of His Father with the holy angels, so He is the Son of the Father.
4.) He is the Son of Man, the Son of God the Father, who will be ashamed of those who are ashamed of Him and His words, when He comes again.
Originally posted by no1marauder===================================
We are talking about the Gospel of Mark, not the later Gospel of Matthew which undoubtedly claims divinity (at least of some sort) to Jesus.
We are talking about the Gospel of Mark, not the later Gospel of Matthew which undoubtedly claims divinity (at least of some sort) to Jesus.
==================================
1.) He is the Messianic King of Israel, the Son of David the Son of Abraham - the emphasis of Matthew
2.) He is the Slave of God and the Slave of mankind serving God and man - the emphasis of Mark
3.) He is the most normal human being who ever lived with the highest morality of all men who ever lived. - the emphasis of Luke
4.) He is God Himself incarnate Who is from eternity and became flesh - the emphasis of John
We have four angles of this exceedingly profound Person Jesus Christ. He is all of these in one -
a king,
a slave,
a man,
God Himself
In response to no particular post here--
Any Israelite could claim to be a son of God: “Thus says YHVH: Israel is my first born son. I have said to you, ‘Let my son go, that he may worship me…’” (Exodus 4:22-23) And : “You are the children (beni’im; literally “sons”, but the masculine plural applies to mixed-gender groups as well: there is no neuter in Hebrew) of YHVH your God.” (Deuteronomy 4:1)
I am not going to comment on what Jesus said (or is said to have said) or thought. There seems to be no question that the phrases “son of man” and “son of God” took on messianic meanings, beyond their usage as fairly common Hebraic euphemisms, in certain minority circles (e.g., the Essenes, as well as Jesus’ followers). The whole notion of messiah may also have been narrowed and re-formed, from the range of meanings in the Hebrew Scriptures and tradition, in such groups.
If Jesus claimed to be the only one who was the son of God, that would likely have been taken by most Jews as (a) an insulting and delusional bit of hubris; or (b) a claim that put him at the head of a fringe messianic group. If he was heard as claiming (b), then that at least made him dangerous (in the face of Roman occupation), and—depending on how exactly it was heard—in violation of the central Jewish creedal statement, affirming the oneness/wholeness of YHVH.
If Jesus claimed to be the only one who was the son of man, that would likely have been taken by most Jews as (a) a joke—since son of man was a common euphemism for human being; or (b) a claim that put him at the head of a fringe messianic group. Since this claim did not seem to arouse much response, perhaps it was not heard in any special way—but just as a fairly common euphemism of reference.
Whatever people later claim that Jesus meant, including whatever understanding that may have been contributed by Greek thought, has no bearing on what various people of his time and place (1st century Judea and Galilee) would have heard.
Some Jews have seen Jesus as a charismatic Galilean rabbi, who emphasized in charismatic speech the divine “I-am” in every human being as uniquely reflective of the Torah/Logos of God; others have seen him as one more delusional pseudo-messiah; most, perhaps, do not consider him one way or another, and would just shrug if asked. After all, they don’t generally read the NT—and Christian theological categories and forms of Biblical exegesis are so paradigmatically different from Jewish tradition (going back before the time of Jesus) as to be alien to, not just what they think, but how they think about spiritual matters and scripture.
Originally posted by no1marauderIn order to see the Greek words (which at your posted text are fragmented), it's enough to click the "Reply & Quote" link of your quote; then you 'll see the Greek word of the mentioned text in the window "Quoted Post"
Mark was written in Greek and the word in question is:
χριστος noun - nominative singular masculine
Christos khris-tos': anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus -- Christ.
http://scripturetext.com/mark/8-29.htm
Nothing about any "Son of the Living God".
EDIT: Go to the link; the Greek word doesn't paste to this forum.
