Who is a Christian?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You want me to focus on what YOU think is important.. got it 😀

Christians like you swallow the nonsense those like sonship profess because it is in nice words. Are you so shallow and gullible ? Can you not see that these people preach doctrines contrary to Christ?

I am not swallowing anybody's nonsense, I have a mind of my own and I do my own thinking, why do you keep saying that? Sometimes topics that come up that may be of interest and so questions are asked because I wish to know more. You for some reason have issues with questions, if you espouse a point of view, you should be able to back it up or at least express your view on why you believe a thing rather than condemning those whose view differs from your own. Generally I can converse with just about anyone, but I do find it sometimes difficult with you because it is a lot like work, I have to fix your quoting of me, rephrasing of questions, etc., no big deal but it is tiring.

Gullible? No I don;t think so. Shallow? No, anything but. So where does that leave us? I will continue to express my point of view in this forum as I am sure you will as well, I will endeavor to learn from others, I would hope you would also.

You have called me unteachable... I believe that to be you. Have you arrived, at anything?

C'est la vie.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
There are a number of nonsensical claims in that lecture.

For example:
"In John 5:18, Jesus claimed to be 'equal with God.'"

The truth be told, in John 5:18, it is the Jews accusing Jesus of "making himself equal with God". It is NOT Jesus claiming to be "equal with God". In fact, Jesus isn't even speaking.

What's more, in John 5:19-24 Jesus se ...[text shortened]... thing else.

Why do you believe such blatant nonsense?

Why do you think anyone else should?

Have you found anything on that web page that you believe to be true? Just curious.

You have scripture verses, an explanation to follow with reasons. What are you having a problem with exactly? I will give you credit for at least taking the time to look it over, others won't even do that but will talk as if they had.

Well?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Thanks for your honesty.

The Bible does not say anything about Jesus being FULLY MAN and FULLY GOD.
Why? Because it is not correct.

Say what Bible says. Do not add to it.

I am not adding to it and I am not denying the truth within it either as you are. I would even tell you that you're adding to what the scripture says about Jesus as well when you by altering who Jesus is.

Originally posted by leunammi
Have you found anything on that web page that you believe to be true? Just curious.

You have scripture verses, an explanation to follow with reasons. What are you having a problem with exactly? I will give you credit for at least taking the time to look it over, others won't even do that but will talk as if they had.

Well?

What are you having a problem with exactly?

Well, for one I take issue with the claim about John 5:18 as I stated.

Any chance that you'll address what I wrote?

I'd like to give you credit for at least taking the time to address what I wrote, others won't even do that but will talk as if they had.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]What are you having a problem with exactly?

Well, for one I take issue with the claim about John 5:18 as I stated.

Any chance that you'll address what I wrote?

I'd like to give you credit for at least taking the time to address what I wrote, others won't even do that but will talk as if they had.[/b]

Well, I am not sure what your issue is with the verse, John 5:18. It seems to me that what Jesus was saying was being understood by the Jews to mean he was saying he was God/equal with God whatever it was. You have a religious group of people whose way of life was the scriptures, just maybe they understood exactly what he was saying and took issue, to the point of wanting to kill him.

John 5:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Seems like Jesus said something, no?


You may understand that to have a different meaning but I don't know what it would be, do you care to elaborate? Do I understand you correctly?

Originally posted by leunammi
Well, I am not sure what your issue is with the verse, John 5:18. It seems to me that what Jesus was saying was being understood by the Jews to mean he was saying he was God/equal with God whatever it was. You have a religious group of people whose way of life was the scriptures, just maybe they understood exactly what he was saying and took issue, to the ...[text shortened]... ing but I don't know what it would be, do you care to elaborate? Do I understand you correctly?

Maybe it'll help if I lay it out more plainly.

This is what Charlie H Campbell wrote:
""In John 5:18, Jesus claimed to be 'equal with God.'"

The above statement is not true. Jesus did NOT claim to be 'equal with God" in John 5:18. It's a blatant falsehood. It's dishonest. That's my issue.

Now if Charlie had instead written something like:
"In John 5:18, the Jews claimed that Jesus claimed to be 'equal with God' in calling God His own Father"
I'd be okay with it.

But it isn't what Charlie wrote.

Do you now understand my issue with Charlie's claim?

It is an example of how some take a verse out of context and try to make it seem as if it says something else.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Maybe it'll help if I lay it out more plainly.

This is what Charlie H Campbell wrote:
""In John 5:18, Jesus claimed to be 'equal with God.'"

The above statement is not true. Jesus did NOT claim to be 'equal with God" in John 5:18. It's a blatant falsehood. It's dishonest. That's my issue.

Now if Charlie had instead written something like:
"I ...[text shortened]... it.

But it isn't what Charlie wrote.

Do you now understand my issue with Charlie's claim?

It would help if you were at least a little more honest in what you are quoting and trying to say. John 5:18 is qualified a little further down in the paragraph. Here is the excerpt from Charlie's writing as a quote:

John 5:18
“Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, [Why?] because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father [implying that He was the Son of God], making Himself [What?] equal with God.”

Referring to God as His Father and Himself as the Son of God, as He did here in John 5:25 and elsewhere [e.g., John 3:16], was the equivalent of making Himself what? “Equal with God” the apostle John says.

Referring to God as His Father, referring to Himself as the Son of God, was the equivalent of making Himself “equal with God.”

Those listening to Him understood that a son is of the same nature, the same species, the same essence, as his father. And so they immediately understood what Jesus meant by referring to Himself as the Son of God. 'He's claiming to be equal with God!' And they sought to kill Him. So this title “Son of God” actually helps to verify Jesus’ deity rather than undermine it.

John 5:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

The Jews sought to kill Jesus, why?
because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father

Would he not be one with the father?

So of the 30+ scriptures making the author's point about the divinity of Jesus and that he is God, is the John 5:18 passage the only thing you take issue with because he did not express himself right?

You do not believe Jesus to be God? Do you believe him to be the son of God? What is your belief?

I don't know if it was a joke or not but I saw a post of yours where you mentioned something about a theology degree. Do you have one? I am interested in your take on this subject matter.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
There are a number of nonsensical claims in that lecture.

For example:
"In John 5:18, Jesus claimed to be 'equal with God.'"

The truth be told, in John 5:18, it is the Jews accusing Jesus of "making himself equal with God". It is NOT Jesus claiming to be "equal with God". In fact, Jesus isn't even speaking.

What's more, in John 5:19-24 Jesus se ...[text shortened]... thing else.

Why do you believe such blatant nonsense?

Why do you think anyone else should?

Good point. Thats why I dont bother with those websites. I can read the Bible and understand .. you seem to do that well to. Apparently others here are not so gifted

Originally posted by leunammi
Have you found anything on that web page that you believe to be true? Just curious.

You have scripture verses, an explanation to follow with reasons. What are you having a problem with exactly? I will give you credit for at least taking the time to look it over, others won't even do that but will talk as if they had.

Well?

Did not the man say what he was having a problem with? Cant you read?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I am not adding to it and I am not denying the truth within it either as you are. I would even tell you that you're adding to what the scripture says about Jesus as well when you by altering who Jesus is.

I have not altered wh Jesus is ... you have. I am like Simon Peter:
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. (John 6:68-69 KJV)

Jesus has the words of eternal life.
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

I dont need anything else. If you need more than you believe as you wish.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Did not the man say what he was having a problem with? Cant you read?

I sure can, did you read my response? Having a problem with the way somebody says a thing doesn't make what they are saying invalid.

Originally posted by leunammi
Well, I am not sure what your issue is with the verse, John 5:18. It seems to me that what Jesus was saying was being understood by the Jews to mean he was saying he was God/equal with God whatever it was. You have a religious group of people whose way of life was the scriptures, just maybe they understood exactly what he was saying and took issue, to the ...[text shortened]... ing but I don't know what it would be, do you care to elaborate? Do I understand you correctly?

Jesus said God was His Father.

People said that he was making himself equal to God,

Jesus did not say that he was equal to God.
jesus did not say that he was God.

You choose to believe in people rather than Jesus ... that much is obvious.

Originally posted by leunammi
I sure can, did you read my response? Having a problem with the way somebody says a thing doesn't make what they are saying invalid.

Jesus never said that he was God or equal to God. So for a writer to claim that Jesus did that is a lie.

Originally posted by leunammi
It would help if you were at least a little more honest in what you are quoting and trying to say. John 5:18 is qualified a little further down in the paragraph. Here is the excerpt from Charlie's writing as a quote:

[quote]John 5:18
“Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, [Why?] because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that G ...[text shortened]... about a theology degree. Do you have one? I am interested in your take on this subject matter.

The fact remains that his statement at the beginning was not true.

It's a dishonest game that politicians, false advertisements, misleading documents, etc., often play. They put out a "sound bite" that is misleading, then even if they qualify it later (aka "fine print" ), what often sticks is the "sound bite".

Unless I missed it, Charlie did not qualify what he said about the dubious claim (John 8:58) and false claim (John 10:33) that sandwich it. Charlie misleads the reader / listener into thinking that Jesus claimed to be God when He didn't.

Would he not be one with the father?
I believe that Jesus believed himself to be one with God in the same manner as where He asked that His followers be made one with Him and God:

John 17
" 20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

So of the 30+ scriptures making the author's point about the divinity of Jesus and that he is God, is the John 5:18 passage the only thing you take issue with because he did not express himself right?
No. As I prefaced my first post on this topic, "There are a number of nonsensical claims in that lecture."

You do not believe Jesus to be God?
I do not believe that while He walked the Earth, Jesus ever claimed to be God.

Do you believe him to be the son of God?
I believe that Jesus believed himself to be the son of God in the same manner as where He said, "“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." (Matthew 7:9)

I don't know if it was a joke or not but I saw a post of yours where you mentioned something about a theology degree. Do you have one?
I never claimed to have one. You must have misconstrued something I wrote or I seriously botched what I was trying to write.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Jesus never said that he was God or equal to God. So for a writer to claim that Jesus did that is a lie.

Look here. The link to the website (which you have expressed no interest in, in no uncertain terms) lists more than this one scripture that you and ThinkofOne are wanting to split hairs over, I counted in excess of 30 related to Jesus divinity. Now if you want to do some reading go ahead, I will discuss with you then. If you do not care to do some reading so that you are informed as to what you are talking about related to the commentary of this Charlie Campbell... then we are done.

Sorry.