07 May 12
Originally posted by sonhouseIf Atheists are right, then how could anyone be disappointed? No one knows anything with the death of the body according to that view. If Christians are right then they should not be disappointed and Atheists should not be disappointed because they have all been warned and they chose their fate.
Yeah, he should have stuck to his triangle.
By far the most likely outcome is neither will find out a dam thing since nobody, even if there IS a god, would give a rats asss about what happens to humans, we being more like an experiment at best and it would just assign another experiment if the race offed itself.
07 May 12
Originally posted by RJHindsSo what about all the thousands of years that went by before JC and the boys? They just go to your pathetic hell because they had the nerve to be born 3000 years before JC?
If Atheists are right, then how could anyone be disappointed? No one knows anything with the death of the body according to that view. If Christians are right then they should not be disappointed and Atheists should not be disappointed because they have all been warned and they chose their fate.
07 May 12
Originally posted by sonhouseThey refused to believe and obey the truth provided to them, just like you do today. So they have no excuse and neither do you. HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!
So what about all the thousands of years that went by before JC and the boys? They just go to your pathetic hell because they had the nerve to be born 3000 years before JC?
07 May 12
Originally posted by vanderveldeif the atheist is right, the religious person would not be disappointed because he wouldn't exist anymore.
1. an [b]atheist, who discovers that there is a God after all, so he is gonna face eternal suffering etc...
or
2. a religious person, who discovers that there is no God but only Nothingness?
Yeah, yeah, I know that the question contains logical (but who cares about logic when it comes to spirituality?!) objection: in the case of 2. a ...[text shortened]... int Peter.
So there is a little bit of abstraction is needed in order to face the question.[/b]
you need to frame your question differently. for example, the religious person dies and discovers that he has been following the wrong religion and now he must face the punishment of another god!
07 May 12
Originally posted by SuzianneI take it then that if you knew a few more Muslims, you would convert to Islam?
This is childish to throw this back on God. Exactly how many faithful Christians do you know? How many do you HAVE to know before you realize the truth?
It's YOUR fault for not listening to the people He's sent to try to show you the way. I've told you countless times that Faith is the way.
Seriously, you think people are going to listen to someone who believes the deluded ramblings of the book of revelations are factual predictions? In your analogy, that's equivalent to God sending a crocodile then asking why you didn't take a ride on its back.
.... secure in the knowledge that you must be right when any number of us have said, "No, you're wrong."
I am sure you have heard 'you are wrong' just as often as I have. The difference being that I can back up my assertion and you cant. You even admit being frightened of reading certain books because you fear that you are wrong.
This is WHY you have Free Will. So none can say, "How can God screw me like this?" The fact is, you screwed yourself by hardening your heart to Him.
So its all a plan by God to try and avoid taking the blame for the torture that he plans to carry out?
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07 May 12
Originally posted by SuzianneYes I have heard this 'old joke' albeit in a slightly different form.
There's an old joke like this.
A very devout evangelist lived in a house in a flood plain, but was not worried because he felt that if there were a flood, God would save him.
Sure enough, the rainy season that year was prodigious, resulting in a rare 100-year flood that flooded nearly the entire valley.
Amid the rising waters, he promptly climbed t ...[text shortened]... he fact is, you screwed yourself by hardening your heart to Him.
However it does nothing to back up the point you are trying to make.
The character in the story is standing on the roof of a building surrounded by rising flood waters asking to
be saved. And is overly picky in who he is to be saved by.
I am not standing on a house surrounded by rising flood waters asking to be saved.
I am not asking any god for anything, I am not asking to be 'saved' (from what exactly?).
There are people who believe all kinds of stupid nonsense that is not backed up by reality.
So that there are people who believe something is NOT evidence that it is true.
In the case of religion and belief in a god or gods I know people who believe in many different
religions/deities and know of many more religions/deities besides that.
I have no reason to suppose that any of them are any more true than any other.
You are claiming that a god exists (for which you have precisely zero evidence) who wants me (everyone) to worship
'him' and failing to do so will result in that god punishing me with eternal torture and pain.
There are others who claim that a different god or gods exist (for which they have precisely zero evidence) who wants
me (everyone) to worship those gods and failing to do so will result in those gods punishing me with eternal torture and pain.
There are gods who will reward me with that religions version of heaven only if I prove my worth as a warrior on the field of
battle.
And there are other religions and deities which don't have a heaven or hell but have reincarnation or something else entirely.
Without evidence there is no reason to suppose any of these beliefs are true, and people believing these things does not
count as evidence. Otherwise i can claim that the increasing number of atheists indicates the increasing truth of gods non-existence.
It is not childish to say that if god wants people to worship him that that god should damn well provide some reason and evidence
for actually supposing that that god exists.
And to punish people for not worshiping you with an eternity of unbearable torment is cruel and immoral in the extreme.
No god that does such a thing is worthy of being worshipped.
Your beliefs include a god who created hell and the conditions for who gets sent to it and then failing to provide any evidence for
either his existence or that of heaven or hell.
Your god is thus wholly responsible for any and every person who ends up in hell.
08 May 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeThere must of been people like you at the time of the worldwide flood of Noah's time.
Yes I have heard this 'old joke' albeit in a slightly different form.
However it does nothing to back up the point you are trying to make.
The character in the story is standing on the roof of a building surrounded by rising flood waters asking to
be saved. And is overly picky in who he is to be saved by.
I am not standing on a house sur ...[text shortened]... ell.
Your god is thus wholly responsible for any and every person who ends up in hell.
08 May 12
Originally posted by vanderveldethe atheist.
1. an [b]atheist, who discovers that there is a God after all, so he is gonna face eternal suffering etc...
or
2. a religious person, who discovers that there is no God but only Nothingness?
Yeah, yeah, I know that the question contains logical (but who cares about logic when it comes to spirituality?!) objection: in the case of 2. a ...[text shortened]... int Peter.
So there is a little bit of abstraction is needed in order to face the question.[/b]
Originally posted by vanderveldeThe scenario does not have to be logical. It is a thought experiment. Similarly, there are many different ways to be either an atheist or religious, but the thought experiment invites us to be simple for the sake of the discussion. On those terms I suggest the following.
1. an [b]atheist, who discovers that there is a God after all, so he is gonna face eternal suffering etc...
or
2. a religious person, who discovers that there is no God but only Nothingness?
Yeah, yeah, I know that the question contains logical (but who cares about logic when it comes to spirituality?!) objection: in the case of 2. a int Peter.
So there is a little bit of abstraction is needed in order to face the question.[/b]
An atheist who discovered he is wrong would be fascinated and want to have a real serious think about where he went wrong, adjusting his opinions according to the new evidence and perhaps re-evaluating the old evidence.
A religious person who is presented with solid evidence that he is just about as wrong as he can be will assume he is being tested by God or tricked by the devil, and pray with greater fervour still. The more he lacks support for this belief, the more vigorously he will rely on it.
08 May 12
Originally posted by finneganI think you got at the fundamental difference between a typical atheists way of thinking and a typical theist way of thinking or at least that of the more extremist theist that we often get on these forums.
The scenario does not have to be logical. It is a thought experiment. Similarly, there are many different ways to be either an atheist or religious, but the thought experiment invites us to be simple for the sake of the discussion. On those terms I suggest the following.
An atheist who discovered he is wrong would be fascinated and want to have a real s ...[text shortened]... ervour still. The more he lacks support for this belief, the more vigorously he will rely on it.
11 May 12
Originally posted by vanderveldeI believe there is a God and he only lets atheists into heaven, therefore I do not believe in Him. Amen. 😏
1. an [b]atheist, who discovers that there is a God after all, so he is gonna face eternal suffering etc...
or
2. a religious person, who discovers that there is no God but only Nothingness?
Yeah, yeah, I know that the question contains logical (but who cares about logic when it comes to spirituality?!) objection: in the case of 2. a ...[text shortened]... int Peter.
So there is a little bit of abstraction is needed in order to face the question.[/b]
11 May 12
Originally posted by wolfgang59interesting theory; and why not?
I believe there is a God and he only lets atheists into heaven, therefore I do not believe in Him. Amen. 😏
Perhaps a God tests us by testing both our stupidity and rationality; he makes sure there is absolutely no evidence of his existence whatsoever and then those that are still stupid enough to believe that he exists are send to hell by him for their stupidity while those that don't ( us atheists ) pass his test for rationality and thus he sends us atheists to heaven because of this.