"Why Are You Atheists So angry?"

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
until you provide any reasons, you remain, deviod of reason, i am not the least bit
interested in whether a person is deemed a Christian, or an atheists, to me, they are
first and foremost human beings.

That's right, because you are just like the atheists in that you don't believe
in Hell, a place of eternal torment.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]I have a brother who is a firm atheist of the worst kind .. the kind that condemns all religion and laughs and belittle religious people.

For some reason i find that rather comforting.[/b]

Im not surprised. 🙂

Originally posted by Melanerpes
In your view - what do you find is the best thing about living a religious lifestyle? What do you believe the atheists are missing out on?

A sense of security that this life is not the end. There is much more to look forward to. The reason why people leave religion is becuause it conflicts with their plans. I cannot remember my beliefs ever conflicting with what I want to do. Maybe I have a greater desire to do what is right as defined by Christ than some others. So I dont consider my current lifestyle a sacrifice in the sense of having to give up anything.

Some atheists [not all of course] want to gamble, drink excessively, womanize, party etc etc. I dont care for those things.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
.. Jesus talks about being willing to forgive others. The assumption is that he's only talking about being willing to forgive others when they sin against you . But I wonder if he's also talking about being willing to "forgive" others for simply being different - ...

What do you think of this passage and how does it impact on your impression that we have to forgive others for being different. Here the Apostle John is saying not to pray for sinners who commit unforgivable sins ..

1John 5:14-17 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Originally posted by Rajk999
What do you think of this passage and how does it impact on your impression that we have to forgive others for being different. Here the Apostle John is saying not to pray for sinners who commit unforgivable sins ..

1John 5:14-17 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if w ...[text shortened]... y that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

My statement about "forgiving" people who are "different" was specifically regarding things that are not sins, just differences. That's why I put the word "forgive" in quotes.

An example - lets say you have an uncle who tells the same boring jokes and stories every time your family has a get-together. And you find this to be very annoying. And you have a very perky aunt who seems to absolutely love these jokes and stories and even eagerly urges him to tell them over and over. Which you find to be even more annoying.

Now - you can't really say your uncle or aunt are committing sins - it's just who they are. Nevertheless, you find yourself feeling very angry at these people. You want to change them and, like most people, they just WILL NOT change. And this anger is interfering with your relationship with them.

So in this case, "forgiveness" is accepting that your uncle is going to tell his jokes, and that your aunt is going to be perky - and even praying that God will give you the grace to actually enjoy these things.

I know that in my own life, its been an ongoing challenge to do this regarding certain people in my own family. But there is a certain peace you feel once you do "let go" of that need to change everyone. (Which is what you yourself reminded me about).

Originally posted by Rajk999
A sense of security that this life is not the end. There is much more to look forward to. The reason why people leave religion is becuause it conflicts with their plans. I cannot remember my beliefs ever conflicting with what I want to do. Maybe I have a greater desire to do what is right as defined by Christ than some others. So I dont consider my current l ...[text shortened]... ourse] want to gamble, drink excessively, womanize, party etc etc. I dont care for those things.

We are very much alike. I feel the same way.

Originally posted by Rajk999
What do you think of this passage and how does it impact on your impression that we have to forgive others for being different. Here the Apostle John is saying not to pray for sinners who commit unforgivable sins ..

1John 5:14-17 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if w ...[text shortened]... y that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

as for what would constitute an "unforgiveable sin" - I don't know.

Maybe a case where a person understands completely that Jesus is willing and able to forgive his sins, but still refuses to accept that his sins can be forgiven? I guess even God can't forgive you if you absolutely refuse to accept forgiveness?

But it would seem that only God would be able to judge if this is the case. So how would any of us know that certain people should not be prayed for?

Originally posted by Melanerpes
My statement about "forgiving" people who are "different" was specifically regarding things that are not sins, just differences. That's why I put the word "forgive" in quotes.

An example - lets say you have an uncle who tells the same boring jokes and stories every time your family has a get-together. And you find this to be very annoying. And you hav ...[text shortened]... o" of that need to change everyone. (Which is what you yourself reminded me about).

I understand your point. It probably is not always easy to accept people as they are but maybe it would help to understand that Christ would. Imagine how boring the world would be if we were all the same.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
as for what would constitute an "unforgiveable sin" - I don't know.

Maybe a case where a person understands completely that Jesus is willing and able to forgive his sins, but still refuses to accept that his sins can be forgiven? I guess even God can't forgive you if you absolutely refuse to accept forgiveness?

But it would seem that only God woul ...[text shortened]... this is the case. So how would any of us know that certain people should not be prayed for?

The Bible does identify blasphemy as one of the unforgivable sins. And although it is correct to say that God is the judge, that's not the whole story. We are told what constitutes sins and we are told that we have to keep away from certain kinds of sin/sinners. Therefore there is a certain amount of judgement required on our behalf so that we can act when necessary.

We cannot sit around like imbeciles and say God will judge. God gave us the ability to discern right from wrong. We must judge for ourselves, but we must not condemn or take vengeance, which is the prerogative of God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The Bible does identify blasphemy as one of the unforgivable sins. And although it is correct to say that God is the judge, that's not the whole story. We are told what constitutes sins and we are told that we have to keep away from certain kinds of sin/sinners. Therefore there is a certain amount of judgement required on our behalf so that we can act when n ...[text shortened]... udge for ourselves, but we must not condemn or take vengeance, which is the prerogative of God.

Does this mean that if your brother, the atheist, was to repent and turn to Christ, that his sins would not be forgiven?

Originally posted by Rajk999
The Bible does identify blasphemy as one of the unforgivable sins. And although it is correct to say that God is the judge, that's not the whole story. We are told what constitutes sins and we are told that we have to keep away from certain kinds of sin/sinners. Therefore there is a certain amount of judgement required on our behalf so that we can act when n ...[text shortened]... udge for ourselves, but we must not condemn or take vengeance, which is the prerogative of God.

The Bible does identify blasphemy as one of the unforgivable sins.

The Apostle Paul said that he was formerly "a blasphemer."

"I give thanks to Him who empowers me, Christ Jesus our Lord, that He has counted me faithful, appointing me to the minsitry,

Who formerly was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insulting person; but I received mercy ..." (See First Timothy 1:12,13)

I think you are mistaken in going too far.

Originally posted by googlefudge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUI_ML1qkQE&feature=channel_video_title


This is a video of a talk (appx 48mins long) from the recent Skepticon IV conference the video's
from which I have been slowly and steadily watching as time allows as I wasn't able to go (sadness).

The title of this talk is the same as this threads title, and is dealing with ...[text shortened]... ts and the
vast majority of skeptics and/or freethinkers (those that are doing it right).

It truly should have been titled "why are liberals so angry"?

Originally posted by Melanerpes
Does this mean that if your brother, the atheist, was to repent and turn to Christ, that his sins would not be forgiven?

I cannot answer that. If he were to tell me that he repents and now believes in God, my answer would be "Dont tell me .. Tell that to God thats between you and God".

Now thats a totally different answer from what you would give him Im sure. You might proceed to reassure him that he will be forgiven... just guessing 🙂
.. but there are many cases in the Bible where sinners were not forgiven, and there will be many more at the arrival of Christ who will not be forgiven notwithstanding their pleas for mercy.

Many church leaders make that mistake. There are many that would not find forgiveness. Church leaders are wrong to fool people. The correct answer is the one I gave above ... "its between you and God"

Originally posted by RBHILL
It truly should have been titled "why are liberals so angry"?

interesting point.

Are there any atheists in this forum who would describe themselves as political "conservatives"? Or who are angry at religions that support "liberal" or "progressive" causes?

Originally posted by jaywill

The Bible does identify blasphemy as one of the unforgivable sins.

The Apostle Paul said that he was formerly [b]"a blasphemer."

"I give thanks to Him who empowers me, Christ Jesus our Lord, that He has counted me faithful, appointing me to the minsitry,

Who formerly was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insulting pers ...[text shortened]... mercy ..." (See First Timothy 1:12,13)

I think you are mistaken in going too far.[/b]

The Bible refers to unforgivable sins.
What are they?

Not every blasphemer will receive forgiveness.
I can think of many reasons why Pauls case is different.

The zeal with which he pursued Christians when he was a Pharisee is what God took and channeled in the right direction.

Certainly everyone can ask for forgiveness but not everyone will receive it. Its up to God.