15 Dec 11
Originally posted by MelanerpesNot in this forum, but their is a poster in 'Debates' who is a right-wing atheist who doesn't accept evolution. Talk about confused.
interesting point.
Are there any atheists in this forum who would describe themselves as political "conservatives"? Or who are angry at religions that support "liberal" or "progressive" causes?
15 Dec 11
Originally posted by MelanerpesYes, I'd have to deal with the beam in my own eye (my anger) that keeps me from seeing these two as people who enjoy each other and their life together. It's not always all about me. I have no right expecting them to change for me. Any sin here might be with me for my arrogance and impatience.
An example - lets say you have an uncle who tells the same boring jokes and stories every time your family has a get-together. And you find this to be very annoying. And you have a very perky aunt who seems to absolutely love these jokes and stories and even eagerly urges him to tell them over and over. Which you find to be even more annoying.
Now - yo ...[text shortened]... le, they just WILL NOT change. And this anger is interfering with your relationship with them.
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by jaywillThis is what Jesus says, “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemyThe Bible does identify blasphemy as one of the unforgivable sins.
The Apostle Paul said that he was formerly [b]"a blasphemer."
"I give thanks to Him who empowers me, Christ Jesus our Lord, that He has counted me faithful, appointing me to the minsitry,
Who formerly was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insulting pers ...[text shortened]... mercy ..." (See First Timothy 1:12,13)
I think you are mistaken in going too far.[/b]
will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be
forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will
be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be
forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
(Matthew 12:31-32 NKJV)
“Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and
whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes
against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal
condemnation”— because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
(Mark 3:28-30 NKJV)
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by SuzianneYep and this is partly the reason why contemporary Christianity has painted themselves into a corner with their unBiblical statements. Just a couple examples ..
Thankfully so. Only he can read the heart of man.
- telling those who sin that they are sure to receive forgiveness if they ask, or actually stating that they are in fact forgiven.
- telling the bereaved family that their dead loved one is sure to be in heaven or sure to get salvation
Why do they do that?
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by twhitehead"Reading the heart of man" is required because of the redemptive nature of forgiveness. One who has sinned in the past and has since come to God could be asking for forgiveness for past sins. As you may be familiar, what passes from one's mouth may not be what is in one's heart, and vice versa. So one could have a "deathbed conversion" to hedge one's bets, but unless true repentance is found in the heart, then forgiveness may not happen. Indeed, the "black heart" you speak of cannot obtain forgiveness nor salvation until true repentance enters in and removes the blackness. Thus, "reading the heart of man" IS required, as one cannot trust what comes from the mouth only.
But why is 'reading the heart of man' required? Surely forgiveness is only required when the heart is black.
ALL sin must be forgiven before salvation is assured. This includes not only current sin, but past sin as well as the original sin man is born into. Only the acceptance of the redemptive sacrifice of the Lamb can achieve all of this. However, the rejection of this sacrifice, and/or the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, can forever block this redemption.
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by Rajk999In the first example, yes, they are sure to receive forgiveness if they ask, if they ask with a pure heart. They must repent and wish to be forgiven, yes. But the promise of the Savior is that they WILL receive such forgiveness if they ask with their heart and accept the promised salvation. I must admit I don't know where you're going with your statement that this is "unbiblical". How did you receive *your* forgiveness? I can only assume you asked for it. Yes, sinners ARE forgiven, if they only ask with a pure heart.
Yep and this is partly the reason why contemporary Christianity has painted themselves into a corner with their unBiblical statements. Just a couple examples ..
- telling those who sin that they are sure to receive forgiveness if they ask, or actually stating that they are in fact forgiven.
- telling the bereaved family that their dead loved one is sure to be in heaven or sure to get salvation
Why do they do that?
The second example, with the dead loved one is more problematic. Surely the dead can ask for nothing, and their deadline expires with them. If they had not repented before death, then their salvation is up to God, but it doesn't look good. Telling the bereaved family that their dead loved one is in heaven is mainly to reassure the ones left behind in their moment of grief. I don't believe there is a man of God who would stand up at a man's funeral and tell the family their loved one is going to Hell.
And pardon my saying so, but I do not see much Christian compassion in your post.
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16 Dec 11
Originally posted by Suzianne
In the first example, yes, they are sure to receive forgiveness if they ask, if they ask with a pure heart. They must repent and wish to be forgiven, yes. But the promise of the Savior is that they WILL receive such forgiveness if they ask with their heart and accept the promised salvation. I must admit I don't know where you're going with your statement ...[text shortened]... ell.
And pardon my saying so, but I do not see much Christian compassion in your post.
If they had not repented before death, then their salvation is up to God, but it doesn't look good.
If a Christian tells me or members of my family I am/we are going to hell if I/we don't repent, I would consider him a hypocrite if after my or my family member died, he said "it is up to God, but it doesn't look good." He should say, "Like I said before, if he didn't repent, he's in hell forever." The person who has the courage/gall to say this sort of thing to your face before you die is suddenly allowed to be a chicken s**t about it afterwards? Sorry, that's letting him off too easy. He needs to know that his judgments will cost him very uneasy moments, great pain to others, and likely, his relationships with them.
The obvious solution is, don't make threats on behalf of God that you won't back up later. Or just don't make threats on behalf of God, period.
Bottom line, I think we are more or less on the same page on this, it's just that I think you are too easy on the judgmental person.
17 Dec 11
Originally posted by SuzianneDid you not say yourself that only God knows the heart of man therefore only God knows who is forgiven?
In the first example, yes, they are sure to receive forgiveness if they ask, if they ask with a pure heart. They must repent and wish to be forgiven, yes. But the promise of the Savior is that they WILL receive such forgiveness if they ask with their heart and accept the promised salvation. I must admit I don't know where you're going with your statement ...[text shortened]... ell.
And pardon my saying so, but I do not see much Christian compassion in your post.
TRUTH.
Its not political correctness thats important.
Do you know what truth is? Here it is ..
I DO NOT KNOW.
Thats the truth. Thats the truth when someone dies and thats the truth when someone asks for forgiveness.
ONLY GOD KNOWS.
Dont get carried away with modern Christianity and its lies.
17 Dec 11
Originally posted by JS357Apparently you would rather hear comforting lies than the truth.If they had not repented before death, then their salvation is up to God, but it doesn't look good.
If a Christian tells me or members of my family I am/we are going to hell if I/we don't repent, I would consider him a hypocrite if after my or my family member died, he said "it is up to God, but it doesn't look good." He should say, "Like I s ...[text shortened]... me page on this, it's just that I think you are too easy on the judgmental person.
If you are so inclined then thats up to you. I know people who would rather hear the the truth.
The truth is that only God knows. End of story.
17 Dec 11
2 edits
Greg Koukl talks about whether the Atheists has any burden of proof.
This is a good critique of the definition of Atheism as "A non-belief in God. A lack of belief in God" I think, or the attitude - "I have no responsbility to present evidence or proof because I have no belief, no burden of evidence or of proof."
&feature=related
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17 Dec 11
Originally posted by Rajk999You seem not to understand how quoting works on RhP. My message is quite the opposite of what you say. I demand that a person who says I will go to hell if I don't repent, have the courage to say to my survivors, "If he didn't repent, he's in hell." Get it?
Apparently you would rather hear comforting lies than the truth.
If you are so inclined then thats up to you. I know people who would rather hear the the truth.
The truth is that only God knows. End of story.
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17 Dec 11
Originally posted by jaywillAs far as I am concerned, the person with the BOP is the person who wants me to change my mind. That should go both ways.
[b]Greg Koukl talks about whether the Atheists has any burden of proof.
This is a good critique of the definition of Atheism as "A non-belief in God. A lack of belief in God" I think, or the attitude - "I have responsbility because I have no belief, no burden of evidence or of proof."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko11P_C0kFs&feature=related[/b]