Why do atheists care. [rhet]

Originally posted by googlefudge
I was not generalising [b]from this one example.

I was using this one example to highlight the kind of problems that exist when people
hold faith based beliefs and particularly when they then try to impose those beliefs on
others.

I did not say that all theists, or even all Christians act this way.
Although however, all irrational beliefs ...[text shortened]... re involved is so important.

It's that which drives the 'atheist movement' and 'why we care'.[/b]

I don't disagree with any of your core points, I just saw what I still think is you generalising and I objected to it. I don't know any Christians at all who impose their thinking on other people. My father was a teacher and a graduate of theology, he never mixed the theology into the teaching, never compromised on scientic fact to allow room for religious belief and followed the school curriculum to the letter. Including when he taught religious education. At his funeral there were more than 200 people from his town who turned out to pay their respects not just to him but to his teaching. He was remembered on the local radio and in the press for his standard of teaching. He is one, but there will be countless other Christians who take the same approach to science including myself.

If you were not generalising then fine, but it looked to me as though your were. There is so much harm done by religious people and I for one stand up against here in this forum, but there also so much good done.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Experiencing either awe or wonder is not in any way the same as being spiritual.

Being spiritual, or having a 'spiritual experience' is something different. What people
talk about when they discuss these things bares no relationship whatsoever to my experience.

People are NOT all the same.

I am not spiritual.

In your earlier post you were saying that spirituality does not exist ("woo".). However in this post you seem to admit it as a concept. If experiencing "awe and wonder" is not the same as being spiritual then what is?

This isn't a trap, I'm wondering about this, what does it mean to be spiritual if one is an atheist? Is spirituality just a matter of having an inner life or is there more?

Originally posted by DeepThought
In the absence of a focus of belief, I'm left wondering what a spiritual life is for an atheist.

Buddhism.

Originally posted by divegeester
I don't disagree with any of your core points, I just saw what I still think is you generalising and I objected to it. I don't know any Christians at all who impose their thinking on other people. My father was a teacher and a graduate of theology, he never mixed the theology into the teaching, never compromised on scientic fact to allow room for religio ...[text shortened]... here will be countless other Christians who take the same approach to science including myself.

Either your stance this whole thread has been wrong, or you just generalised based on one example.
Which is it to be?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Either your stance this whole thread has been wrong, or you just generalised based on one example.
Which is it to be?

I just generalised based on one example exactly the same way the OP does.

Thank you.

Originally posted by divegeester
I just generalised based on one example exactly the same way the OP does.

Thank you.

So your disagreement with the generalization of the OP is invalid?

Originally posted by twhitehead
So your disagreement with the generalization of the OP is invalid?

How did you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by divegeester
How did you come to that conclusion?

1. The OP contains a generalization.
2. It is in fact not based on a single example, but it is a generalization.
3. Your objection however is based on a single example, a practice you yourself have called out as invalid.

Originally posted by twhitehead
1. The OP contains a generalization.
2. It is in fact not based on a single example, but it is a generalization.
3. Your objection however is based on a single example, a practice you yourself have called out as invalid.

Yes, I was making a point by generalising myself using a clear, truthful example - Just like the OP! What else do you think I said "thank you" to you for.

🙂

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes, I was making a point by generalising myself using a clear, truthful example - Just like the OP! What else do you think I said "thank you" to you for.

🙂

And my point, which you seem to have missed, is that the OP generalization is valid whereas yours is not.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And my point, which you seem to have missed, is that the OP generalization is valid whereas yours is not.

I didn't miss your point, I just don't agree with you. The OP is an erroneous generalisation about billions of people. Perhaps you can prove otherwise. Can you?

Originally posted by divegeester
I didn't miss your point, I just don't agree with you.

Then your response didn't make sense.

The OP is an erroneous generalisation about billions of people.
It may be erroneous, but it is not erroneous because of the example given. I do not in fact think it is erroneous.

Perhaps you can prove otherwise. Can you?
Not without Googling for studies on the matter, no. But then you can't proof it is erroneous without doing so too. Posting what you admit is a flawed counter argument didn't help. It just demonstrated your refusal to engage the OP in a logical and sensible manner because you don't like what it is saying.

Originally posted by divegeester
I don't disagree with any of your core points, I just saw what I still think is you generalising and I objected to it. I don't know any Christians at all who impose their thinking on other people. My father was a teacher and a graduate of theology, he never mixed the theology into the teaching, never compromised on scientic fact to allow room for religio ...[text shortened]... ious people and I for one stand up against here in this forum, but there also so much good done.

Yes I can see how concerned you are about the harms being done by the theists in
the OP which is why you have spent so much time in this thread completely ignoring
all that harm and instead spent your time attacking me for supposedly overgeneralising...

Because that was the really important take home message from my OP...

Originally posted by DeepThought
In your earlier post you were saying that spirituality does not exist ("woo".). However in this post you seem to admit it as a concept. If experiencing "awe and wonder" is not the same as being spiritual then what is?

This isn't a trap, I'm wondering about this, what does it mean to be spiritual if one is an atheist? Is spirituality just a matter of having an inner life or is there more?

I didn't/wouldn't say that 'spirituality' doesn't exist.

That would be like saying belief in god's does not exist... It' obviously does.
What doesn't exist, are the gods being believed in.

Similarly, the feelings people have [and thoughts/practices/intuitions/whatever] that
people describe as being 'spiritual' I am sure exist. I do not doubt that they have
the feelings they describe. My point was that I do not have these feelings and
never have.

Awe and wonder 'might' be part of the gamut of feelings people have when feeling 'spiritual'
but they are not in and of themselves spiritual feelings, there is something else required.

I can tell you that I experience awe watching footage of [say] a Saturn V lifting off. But there
is nothing spiritual about that experience. [for me]

Originally posted by googlefudge
Yes I can see how concerned you are about the harms being done by the theists in
the OP which is why you have spent so much time in this thread completely ignoring
all that harm and instead spent your time attacking me for supposedly overgeneralising...

Because that was the really important take home message from my OP...

I guess it depends on how "important" one thinks your opinion is.