Why God Rejects Me

Originally posted by Pudgenik

Sonship, I've read some of your text here and can only disagree with your thinking.

Are you sure ? Let's see.

If God only wants Christ in you, but rejects you for your sinfulness, what was the point of Jesus and the cross?

How do you think of the Apostle Paul's words ?

" I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life that I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. " (Galatians 2:20)

1.) Paul no longer lives apart from Christ.

2.) Paul realizes that Christ died for the reason to not only shed redemptive blood for his forgiveness, but terminating deletion to get his old "ego" or "I" out of the way.

3.) Christ's death on the cross has terminated the God independent self and instead has grafted Christ into Paul's very being.

4.) Having faith that Paul is now in union with a resurrected and available Christ, Paul lives in oneness with the imparted Christ by faith.

5.) Therefore God did not want the independent ego of Paul, terminated this in Christ's crucifixion, and dispensed the resurrected Christ INTO Paul that Paul and Christ might be mingled together. And that is the life that Paul now lives by faith.

Why would Jesus go into the homes of the sinful, if they were so rejected in their sinfulness?

He came to save sinners. A well man has no need of a doctor. But a sick person has need of a physician. You may count His going into the homes of the sinners the Great Physician going to give His diagnosis. But His death and resurrection His administering the cure to all those willing to realize they need it.

What I think you are missing is that God loves all His children. Yes we sin, 'but God says, get up and walk' 'and sin no more'.

Do you mean something like what Jesus said in John 3:16 ? - "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone who believes into Him might not perish but have eternal life." ?

God so loved the WORLD? Is that what you mean ? If so I agree very much that God greatly loved the world.

Does the verse say that the whole world which He loved receives eternal life? No, it says that every one who "believes into Him ... would not perish, but have eternal life."

To be rejected forever is to perish.
In spite of God's love for the world, eternal life is to those who believe into Christ and perishing is to those who reject to believe into Christ.

Though God's love is so great and so strong He will not give up His righteousness for its sake. He will not give up His glory for its sake. And He will not give up His holiness for its sake. So the cross of Christ is where the love of God is manifested but the righteousness of God is manifested as well - both simultaneously.

His love for me is manifested. But His hatred for sinning is manifested too, in that His Son had to bear divine judgment for sinning on our behalf.

Look at the love of the father in the story of the prodical son. He knew the son sinned, threw away his inheritance. Did the father complain about that? No! The father ran to him, in compassion and love.

The father eagerly awaited the son's return. He ran to the son when he saw him coming a far off. Surely the father's love is seen in that parable.

But the father's preparation to make the prodigal son suitable to be accepted back into the father's house is ALSO revealed.

1.) The son's rags had to be replaced with the father's finest rob -

"Bring out quickly the best robe and put it on him ..." (Luke 16:22a)
This represents clothing the sinner in Christ as righteousness.

2.) The son's finger received the father's ring -

" ... and put a ring on his hand ..." (v.22b)
This could signify the sealing of the Holy Spirit.

3.) The father had to put sandals on his feet -
" ... and sandals on his feet." (v.22c)

This could mean the separating of the prodigal from the filth of the world.

4.) Most importantly the father had a special fattened calf for it to be slain and consumed in celebration.

"And bring the fattened calf; slaughter it, and let us eat and be merry." (v.23) This must represent Christ as the particular special slaughtered One on Calvary. "THE fatten calf" implies a particular one reserved for the occasion.

The remedying dirtiness and nakedness of the prodigal was not the only need. But the hunger of the prodigal needed to be met by eating of the fattened calf. Only after these preparations could the prodigal son be presented in the father's house for the father's feast.

Though the father loved the prodigal and ran to him, fell on his neck and kissed him affectionately, he also did much to qualify the prodigal son to be presentable to the father's house.

And the emphatic statement that once he was DEAD and is now ALIVE strongly indicates that the "father" in the divine sense, HAS to impart His own divine life INTO the sinner in order to receive the forgiven sinner forever.

"But we had to be merry and rejoice, because this brother of yours was dead and has come to life, and he was lost and has been found." (v.32)

Originally posted by sonship
God rejects me in Adam. God receives me in Christ.

If God had not rejected me the Son of God would never have HAD to die on the cross. Because He knew that He would have to reject me He sent the Son to be rejected on His cross in MY place, that I might be welcomed.

I awoke one day and realized that what I was in myself God had to reject. Of course Go ...[text shortened]... my rejection in total. I can now be more than accepted in Christ with whom God is well pleased.

the death of the body is no big deal when your dad is god. you shouldnt place so much importance in it. if god really wanted to suffer for us then why didnt he offer himself for obliteration in return for our redemption? rather than making just a totem, puppet, facsimile of himself? wouldnt a true father gladly give his life for his children? yet god risks nothing for us.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Again, dude. Such amazing greed. You don't seem to be interested in god at all. You don't seem to believe in god simply because you "feel" something. You seem to believe and try to live according to his word because you know that if you do it right it will give you all kinds of goodies. When you finally meet god you'll hold up your hand and say "I've ...[text shortened]... if I were to "offer" you something better? Would you change teams and consider me your new god?

Again, dude.
Such amazing greed. You don't seem to be interested in god at all.

In myself I am not interested in God. In myself I am not for God. But I know Someone who is absolute for the Father and the Father's will. And I have been shown mercy to understand that I need to be identified totally with Him.

Christ is absolute for God. I just wanted my problems solved. But in the process of finding solutions to them I also discovered One Who is absolute for the Father. And I can take Him, be joined TO Him, and be clothed with Him, and presented to God IN Him.

You don't seem to believe in god simply because you "feel" something.

Maybe YOU assume that. Based on what you have experienced you assume everyone else has pretty much the same experience.

Possibly some have experienced Someone that you are YET to have the enjoyment of the experience of. It is a timing matter.

Some preceded me in experiencing Jesus. And some will follow me in experiencing Jesus. And sadly some will not experience Jesus in this way.

YOU assume that I am just "feeling" nothing real.

God's word is, however, more sure than my feelings. And sometimes I feel and other times I do not. Sometimes I have to adjust my feelings to the facts of the word of God.

You seem to believe and try to live according to his word because you know that if you do it right it will give you all kinds of goodies. When you finally meet god you'll hold up your hand and say "I've been good, now gimme stuff!"

You didn't read my post well. I said when I meet God face to face I will say that I stand upon Christ as my merit and my only justification before Him.

We're in love with one another. If we believers and our Father have eternal mutual enjoyment, why do you mock that ? Why do you belittle that ?

You also must not have contemplated much what I said about God's purpose of conforming His saved people to the image of His Son. To become like Christ is my greatest reward and greatest "goodie" if you wish.

If I am going to be a human being, I must be a human being who is like Jesus Christ. And all that Christ obtains and attains in His eternal kingdom is our mutual enjoyment, irregardless of anyone's despising mockery.

What if god decides to change the rules and not give you any "possessions"? Would you stop believing then?

Firstly I want Christ as my possession. Him I have. And the New Testament says -

"Indeed, He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not also with Him freely give us all things ?

Who shall bring a charge against God's chosen ones? It is God who justifies.

Who is he who condemns ? It is Christ Jesus who died and, rather who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who intercedes for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ ? Shall tribulation or anguish or persecution of famine or nakedness or peril or sword ?

... But in all these things we more than conquer through him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor things present nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:32-35,36-39)

Inseparable love ! No use to speculate on if this or that or the other thing might happen. Nothing shall separate the saved man from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus the Lord.

So you should join us and believe into Christ.

What if I were to "offer" you something better? Would you change teams and consider me your new god?

Christ is the Ultimate. Christ is God and man united to be one.
There could be nothing better than this.

So He is to be the "Firstborn among many brothers".
He and all that comes with Him and in Him and by Him, no being could ever exceed.

If the highest creature Lucifer could not top Christ, don't think that you could. So you should believe in the Son of God and enjoy Him with us and we with you.

Originally posted by stellspalfie

the death of the body is no big deal when your dad is god.

For the Son to carry up in His body your sins and mine, was a great matter. It was so great a matter that Jesus requested that if the cup could be passed from Him so not to drink it, I wished that. But He went on to say not His will be done but the Father's will be done.

And it was the Father's will that divine judgment fall upon the Son that was due you and I. In that time of separation He cried out - "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me."

For the sin of the world was upon Him and under the judgment of God.

I genuinely pity anyone who holds a concept that Christ's sacrifice of Himself was "no big deal." I can only feel sorry for such blindness that would not see this ultimate giving of Christ that you and I, the sinners, might be justified.

This is like a story I heard. A mother ran into her burning house to rescue her child. In doing so she was terribly disfigured by the heat. And her beautiful face was scarred for life.

One day she heard her daughter talking to a friend. The friend asked her if the disfigured woman with the burns on her face was her mother. The rescued girl was ashamed of her now hideous mother and denied to the friend that that was her mother.

The analogy is not perfect in every aspect to the New Testament. But it shows the ungratefulness of sinner who does not realize the price paid by the Son of God for the sinner's salvation.

Rather than congratulate yourself on being clever or even insightful, you should re-consider what it meant to Jesus to voluntarily offer Himself up for your soul. He did that for love for you.

Though He died for the sins of the world, He is God-man. And in His transcendent Being it is also PERSONAL and private. This is proved by how Paul teaches that Christ died for himself - Paul, in a personal way.

" ... the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20)

Yes He died for the world. But being the transcendent God and man united - He loved you stellspalfie, and gave Himself up for you . You should pray to God about this matter with honesty.

Originally posted by sonship

the death of the body is no big deal when your dad is god.

For the Son to carry up in His body your sins and mine, was a great matter. It was so great a matter that Jesus requested that if the cup could be passed from Him so not to drink it, I wished that. But He went on to say not His will be done but the Father's will be done.

And ...[text shortened]... gave Himself up for [b] you . You should pray to God about this matter with honesty.[/b]

can you explain what the negative effects for jesus were in taking mans sin? in what way did he suffer?

do you often publicly declare when you feel sorry for people, seems a little bit passive aggressive.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
can you explain what the negative effects for jesus were in taking mans sin? in what way did he suffer?

do you often publicly declare when you feel sorry for people, seems a little bit passive aggressive.

can you explain what the negative effects for jesus were in taking mans sin? in what way did he suffer?

I do not think it is possible for us to fully know what it meant for Christ to bear the six hours upon the cross. But we do have some indications. These we read in the Bible.

Some indications:

He spoke of His "hour" continually, that it was to come.
When the hour approached for which He knew He came into the world He was sorrowful to the point of dying from sorrow.

"And taking Peter and the two sons of Zebedee aside, He began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed. Then He said to them, My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Remain here and watch with Me." (Matthew 26:38)

Have you ever been so troubled that you could not stand to be alone?
Jesus was a man though God incarnate.

Then He prays the first of at least three times concerning the approaching hour -

"He fell on His face and prayed, saying, My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.

And He came to the disciples and found them sleeping. And He said to Peter, so were you not able to watch with Me for one hour ? " (vs.39,40)

The Gospel of Luke records that His prayer to resist the temptation to withdraw from the coming ordeal was so great that He sweat drops of blood from His head.

"And being in agony He prayed more earnestly, and His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down upon the ground." (Luke 22:44)

Why should I believe your theory that for Christ to go to His cross was no difficult matter for Him ?

The prophecy of Isaiah 53 said that He poured out His soul unto death (Isaiah 53:12).

"Because He poured out His life [Lit. soul] unto death and was numbered with the transgressors." (v.12)

It says that God crushed Him -

"But Jehovah was pleased to crush Him, to afflict Him with grief. When He makes Himself an offering for sin ..." (v.10)

Why should I accept your cavalier opinion that it was no discomfort for the Son of God to be crucified ?

For the first six hours He was tortured by man. But at the ninth hour what happened to Him was not from man but supernatural from God. The earthquake was not under man's control. Nor was the darkness upon the whole land under the control of man. Nor was the tearing of the temple curtain from the top down to the bottom under the control of man.

From the midway point of His suffering torture, at the ninth hour, He bore upon Him the divine judgment due the world for its sins. In candidness Luke He cries out His perplexity that the Father with whom He enjoyed eternity with had now forsaken Him, for He is our filthy, hateful sins.

I believe that the bearing of our sins that we could be forgiven was the request He made to the Father out from His own mouth -

"And Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." (Luke 23:34)

His love was greater than His suffering. And God answered His prayer by judging the Son for the ignorant murder of Deity. And the Godman was forsaken in agony of judgment in addition to man made devices of torture -

"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me? (Matt. 27:46)

Only for the joy of resurrection set before Him did He pass through the hour despising the shame -

"Looking away unto Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame ..." (Hebrews 12:2a)

But I do not want you to get the wrong impression. We are not saved because we comprehend the suffering of Christ. We are saved because of believing in Christ, and that whether we understand the suffering or do not.

And this is only the tip of an iceberg. Psalm 22 speaks prophetically more of the suffering of the Son.

And whatever psychology text book you may have lifted the phrase "passive - aggressive" I still feel sorry for ones SO DUPED that they cannot see anything of the COST to Jesus to take your place on His cross.

Originally posted by sonship

can you explain what the negative effects for jesus were in taking mans sin? in what way did he suffer?

I do not think it is possible for us to fully know what it meant for Christ to bear the six hours upon the cross. But we do have some indications. These we read in the Bible.

Some indications:

He spoke of His [b]"hour" conti ...[text shortened]... nes SO DUPED that they cannot see anything of the COST to Jesus to take your place on His cross.[/b]

so jesus had to face death......big deal. every human ever born faces it at some point. jesus suffered in tremendous pain for 6 hours.....well excuse me if i dont get all teary and fall to my knees in prayer. many people have suffered the same and worse and also dont have the pleasure of having a magic dad that can bring them back to life.

so considering jesus took on the entire worlds sin...in what way has he suffered other than a few hours pain?

my wifes young cousin has terminal cancer. im sure his parents would exchange a lifetime on the cross to take it away. kinda makes your man and his pop look like a bunch of wimps.

Originally posted by sonship

can you explain what the negative effects for jesus were in taking mans sin? in what way did he suffer?

I do not think it is possible for us to fully know what it meant for Christ to bear the six hours upon the cross. But we do have some indications. These we read in the Bible.

Some indications:

He spoke of His [b]"hour" conti ...[text shortened]... nes SO DUPED that they cannot see anything of the COST to Jesus to take your place on His cross.[/b]

And whatever psychology text book you may have lifted the phrase "passive - aggressive" I still feel sorry for ones SO DUPED that they cannot see anything of the COST to Jesus to take your place on His cross.

really?? you have never heard the phrase 'passive aggressive'? its quite a commonly used phrase (you could argue this reply is passive aggressive).

okay, ive got a better scenario for you. god transforms himself into a human and takes his own power away to turn back. he then sacrifices himself to absorb man of his sin. he dies an horrific painful death knowing that there will be no after life for him, but he loves man so much he his willing to give up everything forever.


now that my friend would be something meaningful. not the silly little charade the bible came up with.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]And whatever psychology text book you may have lifted the phrase "passive - aggressive" I still feel sorry for ones SO DUPED that they cannot see anything of the COST to Jesus to take your place on His cross.

really?? you have never heard the phrase 'passive aggressive'? its quite a commonly used phrase (you could argue this reply is passive a ...[text shortened]... at my friend would be something meaningful. not the silly little charade the bible came up with.[/b]

really?? you have never heard the phrase 'passive aggressive'? its quite a commonly used phrase (you could argue this reply is passive aggressive).

I didn't say I never heard the phrase. Did I ? Maybe I heard it before you did.

Do you have something more substantial for me to think about in this post below this?

okay, ive got a better scenario for you. god transforms himself into a human and takes his own power away to turn back. he then sacrifices himself to absorb man of his sin. he dies an horrific painful death knowing that there will be no after life for him, but he loves man so much he his willing to give up everything forever.

Next time you're God you can do it the way you want.

I don't like to dignify this lampoon with a serious comment. But some may benefit from the truth.

The Bible says that in His resurrection and ascension Christ as the great High Priest is able to save us to the uttermost because He lives perpetually to intercede for us.

"But He, because He abides forever, has His priesthood unalterable.

Hence also He is able to save to the uttermost those who come forward to God through Him, since He lives always to intercede for them." (Hebrews 7:24,25)

Christ is the perpetual High Priest who is a priest according to the power of an indestructible life. He ever lives to intercede for the believers that they would not be just forgiven, but save[d] to the uttermost.

Your error is in thinking that only forgiveness from sins in the past is an end in itself. Once forgiven of past sins there is the eternal purpose to conform the forgiven to the image of the Firstborn Son of God.

Since we are used to living in the old fallen life of Adam, after being redeemed the Executor of the new covenant ever lives to intercede for our sanctification, transformation and conformation. He ever lives to Execute the covenant by petitioning the Father that we be saved to the uttermost.

In some passages we clearly see that it is in the realm of the living Christ that we are so saved into His image.

Romans 5:10 nicely indicates the two aspects of God's full salvation -

"For we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Rom. 5:10)

1.) We are reconciled as former enemies of God through Christ's death.

2.) Being thus reconciled we are in the process of being saved in the sphere of His life. We are going to be saved, "to the uttermost" in the whole sphere of His resurrection life.

The first reconciliation is in relation to the past because of His death.
The ongoing saving that climaxes in the future is in the realm of His being living.

" ... I am the First and the Last and the living One; and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever ..." (Rev. 1:17b,18a)

Your lampoon is not more impressive. It is nonsensical.

now that my friend would be something meaningful. not the silly little charade the bible came up with.

The Bible never says that God died. What it shows is that God and a man were ONE Person.

Death to God is meaningless. That is the point of the resurrection.
Death to man is not meaningless.
And He was not only God. He was God and man united.

I don't think you should waste time trying to "improve" upon God's plan of salvation. And especially not with satire. But you do what you wish.

I want to simply take what is revealed thankfully. I don't want to use fancying a better way as an excuse for rejecting what God has offered me.

Originally posted by sonship

really?? you have never heard the phrase 'passive aggressive'? its quite a commonly used phrase (you could argue this reply is passive aggressive).

I didn't say I never heard the phrase. Did I ? Maybe I heard it before you did.

Do you have something more substantial for me to think about in this post below this?

[quote]
okay, ...[text shortened]... y. I don't want to use fancying a better way as an excuse for rejecting what God has offered me.

Death to God is meaningless. That is the point of the resurrection.
Death to man is not meaningless.
And He was not only God. He was God and man united.

exactly!!! death to god is meaningless......youve said it yourself. therefore to die on the cross is meaningless.

a god and man united, who has the power of a god........is a god. whats a few hours of pain if you are fully aware you are going to live for eternity in a paradise on earth? for it to have meaning he would have to carry mans burden for eternity. that would be something to humble man, but a few hours on a cross for an eternal being is like the blink of an eye. its pathetic really.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]Death to God is meaningless. That is the point of the resurrection.
Death to man is not meaningless.
And He was not only God. He was God and man united.

exactly!!! death to god is meaningless.....
a god and man united, who has the power of a god........is a god. hours on a cross for an eternal being is like the blink of an eye. its pathetic really.[/b]

I don't know why you are exclaiming as if you have made some great point.

What is the "exactly!!!" all about as if you've hit the jackpot ?

You haven't hit the jackpot. You have spiritually and morally gone to pot.

.youve said it yourself. therefore to die on the cross is meaningless.

You said that, not me.

Saying that death to the Uncreated and Eternal Author of life is meaningless is not saying incarnation is meaningless. Nor is it saying Christ's redemption is meaningless. Nor is it saying that God in Christ dying is meaningless. Nor is the fact of men seeking to really murder God, is meaningless in terms of exposing our depravity.

Nor is it saying God/man suffering on our behalf is meaningless.

What is meaningless ? You're reasons for unbelief and rejection of Christ's salvation are pretty meaningless.

It reminds me of the mind racking question of WHY did Judas betray the Son of God? What did Judas's betrayal of the Son of God accomplish FOR Judas ? It was meaningless.

Your reasonings strike me in a similar way. What are they going to accomplish for you to argue that Christ should not be thought to have sacrificed, suffered, offered Himself ?

Anyway, if you regard this as "pathetic" I regard the weakness of God as stronger than the strength of men and the foolishness of God to be wiser than the wisdom of men.

Originally posted by Soothfast
This kind of makes me wonder what the point is. God, apparently, wants millions of rows of identical cabbages all pre-wired to kiss his ass for eternity. Boring!

Funny, you don't sound like one.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Again, dude. Such amazing greed. You don't seem to be interested in god at all. You don't seem to believe in god simply because you "feel" something. You seem to believe and try to live according to his word because you know that if you do it right it will give you all kinds of goodies. When you finally meet god you'll hold up your hand and say "I've ...[text shortened]... if I were to "offer" you something better? Would you change teams and consider me your new god?

Oh, good grief. Talk about missing the point.

Your post is not only insulting, but it is amazingly, blindingly, ignorant.

Originally posted by sonship
I don't know why you are exclaiming as if you have made some great point.

What is the "exactly!!!" all about as if you've hit the jackpot ?

You haven't hit the jackpot. You have spiritually and morally gone to pot.

.youve said it yourself. therefore to die on the cross is meaningless.

You said that, not me.
...[text shortened]... stronger than the strength of men and the foolishness of God to be wiser than the wisdom of men.

there is a song i like called 'common people'. its a song about a young, poor, working class man. who one day meets a young, wealthy rich girl. the girl is attracted to the young man because she likes the idea of living a working class life. the song talks about all the things that working class people do and the life they have. the song then points out that although she can live like a common person, she can never truly know what its like and what it means, because at any point she can return to her privileged life, daddy is only a phone call away. she is in all effect a tourist tasting the culture, she would only know the real pain and stress of being poor if she had no way out.

the same applies to jesus. he was a tourist, he was never really a 'common people'.

as for saying ive 'morally gone to pot' would you like to elaborate?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Oh, good grief. Talk about missing the point.

Your post is not only insulting, but it is amazingly, blindingly, ignorant.

Insulting................. see the problem with insulting is that religious people so often find every tiny, little, insignificant piece of criticism with regards to their beliefs "insulting". I call it "victim playing". I think it may also be called a form of martyrdom. I think in a weird way it strengthens the religious feelings of those "victims".

Thing is, by shouting "INSULTING!" so often the word really loses its meaning.

So I'm not too bothered by that.

No, scratch that, I'm not bothered by that at all.

With regards to "amazingly, blindingly, ignorant": Please, educate me. Tell me how I'm wrong.

Or you know, you could simply throw a hissy fit, say something like "Well, clearly you're not interested in this at all so I'm not going to bother" and then walk away huffing and puffing.