16 Jul 11
Originally posted by tomtom232You are blind and fooling yourself. The Bible tells us that people in the end of days will claim they are the messiah - just like you did. You are misleaded by a wonder of God and black magic. By your example "turning wine into water" only proves you have no relationship with God, yet you want to be called the messiah - and that by just peeing after you had lots of wine I assume? What a messiah you'd be.
He walked on water, turned water into wine, made water come out of a rock etc etc... I put the question to you... Can not magicians of today appear to walk on water, turn water into wine and make water come out of a rock? Can not magicians of today make elephants dissappear and escape from the most challenging of predicaments?
I, personally, can turn wine into water... I must be a messiah!
16 Jul 11
Originally posted by tomtom232he made water come out of a rock?
He walked on water, turned water into wine, made water come out of a rock etc etc... I put the question to you... Can not magicians of today appear to walk on water, turn water into wine and make water come out of a rock? Can not magicians of today make elephants dissappear and escape from the most challenging of predicaments?
I, personally, can turn wine into water... I must be a messiah!
16 Jul 11
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillSee, the problem here is not much of those words were actually written by Jesus. 99 percent of it came from people 50 or 100 years after the fact.
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He walked on water, turned water into wine, made water come out of a rock etc etc... I put the question to you... Can not magicians of today appear to walk on water, turn water into wine and make water come out of a rock? Can not magicians of today make elephants dissappear and escape from the most chal from everything else to God.
Have you read through the New Testament ?
You must know how stories get built up after so many retellings, besides Christianity should not even be called that, it should by rights be called Paulism since that is where the Roman version of it came from.
Second hand religion using creation myths thousands of years older than even Judaism. Hand me down tales of doom and damnation and being born into sin.
The one consolation for me is it seems, against all odds, to be a religion losing its congregations.
Fairy tales work only so long.
It's just too bad it took 2000 years to get to the point it is today, that is to say, becoming more and more on the fringes of society while real life goes on without the deaths of inter-religious wars. That would be a wonderful world, one without Muslims and Jews and Christians. I would never wish for their deaths, only a mass loss of memory, that would be nice. Where they would pick up the Quran or the Kabala or the Bible and go, 'what were we thinking, to be raked in by all this blatant BS?'
Thereafter, wars would be fought against thugs who have an honest goal, take what they want and dam the consequences. Still war but with honest thuggery not fake religious excuses.
17 Jul 11
Originally posted by tomtom232Jesus can solve mate in 97 problems in 5 seconds or less. He can announce mate in 12, where there is no mate in 12, and still force a mate.
He walked on water, turned water into wine, made water come out of a rock etc etc... I put the question to you... Can not magicians of today appear to walk on water, turn water into wine and make water come out of a rock? Can not magicians of today make elephants dissappear and escape from the most challenging of predicaments?
I, personally, can turn wine into water... I must be a messiah!
Put that in yer pipe and smoke it. 😛
17 Jul 11
Originally posted by tomtom232Jesus IS the single most unique human being who ever lived. Jesus is one of a kind. There is, was, or ever will be another like Him.
He walked on water, turned water into wine, made water come out of a rock etc etc... I put the question to you... Can not magicians of today appear to walk on water, turn water into wine and make water come out of a rock? Can not magicians of today make elephants dissappear and escape from the most challenging of predicaments?
I, personally, can turn wine into water... I must be a messiah!
There is no close second.
21 Jul 11
Jesus Christ is special because He lived the unique biography on the earth which is accessible to all other people.
Your biography and my biography are that of fallen sinners. They will not stand before God. But Jesus Christ lived the life. Christ lived life. He lived the life that was well pleasing to God.
It is good to read the biographies of people, famous and not famous. But the most important life lived on the whole earth within the whole history of mankind is the life of Jesus Christ.
Now we only know about three and one half years of that life plus a moment when He was 12 years old and some moments when He was a little baby. We do not have all the happenings of that spendid life. But we have the fact that it was a PERFECT life, a sinless life and a life which glorified His Father God to the uttermost.
I said this life is accessible. The rest of us can "PLUG IN" to this life and have it dispensed into our life. The rest of us can have "DIRECT ACCESS" to this life of Jesus Christ.
"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45).
This "life giving Spirit" is a Person Who GIVES JESUS into your being. The life giving Spirit allows a man or woman in anywhere in the world, in any situation, in any time to APPLY Jesus to his or her own being.
We can live a mingled life with this PERFECT One. He is available. He is enterable. Jesus is special because He is the only person who lived into whom we may enter. And we may live a life on earth united and mingled with Him.
21 Jul 11
Originally posted by SuzianneErr....isn't it the God who happens to be more powerful than me, and then demands that I worship him unconditionally for this simple fact, and threatens eternal damnation if I don't, being a tad egotistical?
Oh good grief.
This is what irks me most about atheists.
I mean GOD FORBID that there might actually be a being out there who is greater than you. A being worthy of your worship because He is so much greater than you. The being who CREATED you after all. It really seems to me sometimes that this is the real problem atheists have with God. They can't handle playing second fiddle to anyone or anything. How utterly egotistic can you be.
If I demanded such uncritical adoration from my son, for the simple fact that I am more powerful than him, and created him, and can punish him, I doubt you would consider this an admirable quality in me.
Originally posted by Rank outsiderThis reads as rank idiocy to me.
Err....isn't it the God who happens to be more powerful than me, and then demands that I worship him unconditionally for this simple fact, and threatens eternal damnation if I don't, being a tad egotistical?
If I demanded such uncritical adoration from my son, for the simple fact that I am more powerful than him, and created him, and can punish him, I doubt you would consider this an admirable quality in me.
This generation seems so drunk with permissiveness that "righteousness" is to be allowed to do whatever you want.
If you violate the laws of gravity and jump out the window on the fifth floor of a building, do you chid the science teacher ? I mean he personally threatened you that you would fall to the ground and die on the pavement if you jumped out the fifth floor window.
How mean of him. How vindictive of him. Does he have an ego problem or what?
Why threaten me that if I violate a law in the natural universe I will be hurt.
I mean if he really liked me he would not threaten me so. Is he trying to force me to love him ?
The creation that God has brought into being has laws. Sinning is a violation of the law of God. Instead of complaining that God did not create for you a morally chaotic anarchy where all beings can act as evilly as they please, you should spend some time to see to what extent God went to save you from the penalty of sin.
Had He provided no redemption, then you might say He does not care. Yet if He has no moral law in His creation then you also could charge Him with not caring, as I club you over the head and steal your wallot.
21 Jul 11
Originally posted by Rank outsiderWhere does love fit in your equation there? No doubt you love your son. Why did you leave that off your list?
Err....isn't it the God who happens to be more powerful than me, and then demands that I worship him unconditionally for this simple fact, and threatens eternal damnation if I don't, being a tad egotistical?
If I demanded such uncritical adoration from my son, for the simple fact that I am more powerful than him, and created him, and can punish him, I doubt you would consider this an admirable quality in me.
21 Jul 11
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Originally posted by jaywillBravo, jaywill, excellent post.
This reads as rank idiocy to me.
This generation seems so drunk with permissiveness that "righteousness" is to be allowed to do whatever you want.
If you violate the laws of gravity and jump out the window on the fifth floor of a building, do you chid the science teacher ? I mean he personally threatened you that you would fall to the ground and di ...[text shortened]... you also could charge Him with not caring, as I club you over the head and steal your wallot.
Let's examine your last sentence there.
"Yet if He has no moral law in His creation then you also could charge Him with not caring, as I club you over the head and steal your wallet."
This seems to be the core of the argument of a lot of atheists here, most notably sonhouse. "Since he didn't prevent me from being hurt, either he doesn't exist, or he doesn't care about me." or "Since he's not coming down here and personally correcting our errors to save our dumb asses from worldwide catastrophe, obviously either he doesn't exist or he doesn't care about his creation."
They conveniently forget the second-to-last sentence: "Had He provided no redemption, then you might say He does not care." They complain that he doesn't care because he doesn't stop bullets or end hunger or prevent global warming, and yet they cannot take the trouble to hold up their end of the bargain, by believing in Him, repenting their sins and asking Him to come into their lives and guide them to Salvation. They conveniently forget the sin part of the equation and expect to be saved with no effort on their part. Ironically, if they could look at this a little more objectively, which they are always exhorting Christians to do, they would possibly see how ridiculous they sound. But they continue with their circular reasoning and blame God for their shortcomings, because it can't possibly be their fault that they are separated from God. And then it's easy to say "well, fine, if he doesn't care, then why should I believe in him?"
It's the conditioning of our times. "Just do it." "It's your world." "It's all about YOU." The media has been bombarding us daily with the idea that we come first, above all else, soaking us in Pride, and leading us by the hand into perdition.
21 Jul 11
Originally posted by SuzianneI am not sure, except that you did not explicitly refer to love in your posting. I am not sure it would made any difference to the main point.
Where does love fit in your equation there? No doubt you love your son. Why did you leave that off your list?
I think my more serious point is that you simply shouldn't say atheists are atheists because they can't bear the idea that something is greater than they are. They are atheists because, having thought it through, they believe that there is no credible reason to believe in a god.
Their arguments are compelling, but I don't count myself as one as such.
21 Jul 11
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Originally posted by Rank outsider=====================================
I am not sure, except that you did not explicitly refer to love in your posting. I am not sure it would made any difference to the main point.
I think my more serious point is that you simply shouldn't say atheists are atheists because they can't bear the idea that something is greater than they are. They are atheists because, having thought it th ...[text shortened]... lieve in a god.
Their arguments are compelling, but I don't count myself as one as such.
They are atheists because, having thought it through, they believe that there is no credible reason to believe in a god.
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No. I think the atheist first desires to think that there is no God. Then he surrounds his thought with protective reasonings as a fortress.
I think what he desires to believe comes first. Then to protect his belief erects reasonings around his thought.
22 Jul 11
Originally posted by jaywillI think the atheist first desires to think that there is no God.
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They are atheists because, having thought it through, they believe that there is no credible reason to believe in a god.
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No. I think the atheist first desires to think that there is no God. Then he surrounds his thought with protective reasonings as ...[text shortened]... desires to believe comes first. Then to protect his belief erects reasonings around his thought.[/b]
I think it is quite clear you have no idea what an atheist thinks. It is a theme which pops up every now and again in your posts, as of yet i have seen nothing from you which resembles how i as an atheist thinks.
22 Jul 11
2 edits
Originally posted by Proper Knob==========================
[b]I think the atheist first desires to think that there is no God.
I think it is quite clear you have no idea what an atheist thinks. It is a theme which pops up every now and again in your posts, as of yet i have seen nothing from you which resembles how i as an atheist thinks.[/b]
I think it is quite clear you have no idea what an atheist thinks.
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No possible idea ?
Do you think I never entertained the thought that "I" was it and that was ALL ?
Granted, I cannot speak for all atheists. But at the same time you should not think I came out of the womb and went right into Sunday School Class. You think I never had any thought of "Where's this God anyway ??"
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It is a theme which pops up every now and again in your posts, as of yet i have seen nothing from you which resembles how i as an atheist thinks.
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Okay.
But you know I am enfluenced by the Book which I am convinced is the word of God to man. And Paul wrote:
"For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly but powerful before God for the overthrowing ostrongholds, as we overthrow reasonings and every high thing which rising up against the knowledge of God, and take captive every thought to the obedience of Christ."
The word picture here is quite meaningful. The "reasining" are like high erected towers and walls. And within the fortress of the proud reasonings are the thoughts.
"reasonings and every high thing which rising up against the knowledge of God" . The word picture if proud thoughts rising up against the knowledge of God is telling. The pride, the rebellious call for independence rather than dependence, rises up like skyscrappers in the city obscuring the light of the sun.
These high things in the mind have to be torn down. For they are erected to protect the thoughts which they encircle:
"take captive every thought unto the obedience of Christ" .
The thought life is in disobedience to the word of Christ. And the proud reasonings and high things of the sinner's logics and rationals encircle and protect his disobedient thoughts.
My experience and 2 Cor. 10:5,6 enfluence what I wrote about the thoughts of there being no God are protected behind proud and high walls of reason.