Originally posted by telerionNice. The air suddenly seems fresher.
Personally, I wouldn't call myself "saved" in the evangelical sense. I don't feel as though I've avoided any impending doom. I'd say that I'm "free" from an enslavement. I feel more alive and aware of my reality. It's like having lived your whole life on opiates, and then coming out of the stupor. No longer certain of the world's origin, p ...[text shortened]... bout all of nature. I am free to ask questions and consider empirical evidence, without fear.
Originally posted by dj2beckerI refuse to live up to anybody elses standards except my own. If that means I'm going to hell. So be it. If I could sell my soul for a better vantage point while i'm there, I'd do it.
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Personally, I like to believe, that I could look him/her/it in the eye(if they have one) and say I have no regrets about the life I lived. If I get in, then pary on. If not, then I"d rather be in hell.
Originally posted by CanadaguyCanadaguy, Your view point is very similar to a view point I once held. Different people would often tell me I was heading to hell, and to this I would agree and tell them I was going to have one hell of a party. I wasn't just going to go to hell; I was going to go to hell and take the place over! But sell my soul? No way! Not to anyone...unless I could get a very good price. If the price was right, I'd probably have thrown in my grandmother as well.
I refuse to live up to anybody elses standards except my own. If that means I'm going to hell. So be it. If I could sell my soul for a better vantage point while i'm there, I'd do it.
Personally, I like to believe, that I could look him/her/it in the eye(if they have one) and say I have no regrets about the life I lived. If I get in, then pary on. If not, then I"d rather be in hell.
I used to think that if Heaven and hell existed (I believed they did not) that God ran Heaven and the Devil ran Hell. I did not realise that God made both and was also in charge of Hell.
That was back in the days when I thought, "absolutely no way was I ever going to become one of those bible bashing Christians."
Fortunately my view point has changed as I became aware of the truth that I was too blind to be able to see. What I didn't realise was that my soul had already been soldout for sin, and that the price of that sin was death. We do have the opportunity though of being free from this wage of sin. Jesus Christ came to pay the wages of our sin so that our souls may be free. All we need to do is to accept His free offer and it is ours, as it is written in Acts 2:21, 'and it shall come to pass that who so ever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.' It really is this simple; no need for pompous puffed up religion or ceremony, as religion on its own is nothing.
I know there will be those on this board that will think this is absolute rubbish, as I also once thought: that is your choice. We are free to believe what we want, but only the truth will set us free. Seek and it shall be found; ask, and it shall be given to you, knock and it shall be opened to you. (Matthew 7:7) however, because of the pride of his face, the wicked will not seek after God (Psalm 10:4).
It is up to you. Will you accept the price already paid for your soul?
If the price was right, I'd probably have thrown in my grandmother as well.
You must have been quite a despicable character indeed!
I used to think that if Heaven and hell existed (I believed they did not) that God ran Heaven and the Devil ran Hell. I did not realise that God made both and was also in charge of Hell.
In charge of Hell? I thought it was sort of a "fix it and forget it" solution that required no management.
That was back in the days when I thought, "absolutely no way was I ever going to become one of those bible bashing Christians."
I've never met a "bible bashing" xian. They must be very confused indeed.
Fortunately my view point has changed as I became aware of the truth that I was too blind to be able to see. What I didn't realise was that my soul had already been soldout for sin, and that the price of that sin was death. We do have the opportunity though of being free from this wage of sin. Jesus Christ came to pay the wages of our sin so that our souls may be free. All we need to do is to accept His free offer and it is ours, as it is written in Acts 2:21, 'and it shall come to pass that who so ever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.' It really is this simple; no need for pompous puffed up religion or ceremony, as religion on its own is nothing.
I'm surprised that you had never heard this message before. At least in the US (you may not live here), it's broadcasted 24/7 on many television channels and radio frequencies. It is also the predomniate message issuing from the churches, which can be found on nearly every street corner.
I know there will be those on this board that will think this is absolute rubbish, as I also once thought: that is your choice. We are free to believe what we want, but only the truth will set us free. Seek and it shall be found; ask, and it shall be given to you, knock and it shall be opened to you. (Matthew 7:7) however, because of the pride of his face, the wicked will not seek after God (Psalm 10:4).
I do seek truth. I must respectfully disagree that I do not seek your god because of "pride of my face."
It is up to you. Will you accept the price already paid for your soul?
Uh . . . no thanks. The god that you describe is IMO playing a very silly game. From the outset designing a standard that he knows everyone will fail (designing the concept of failure itself), with it the concept of debt and punishment, choosing an arbitrary required payment (innocent blood), temporarily sacrificing himself to himself as a means of fulfilling this chosen requirement. Very silly if you ask me.
More over because he knows the fractions of hellbound and heavenbound in advance, as well as the required degree of revelation that would convince any given person to repent and accept Christ, his optimal creation problem can be reduced to that of choosing the degree of revelation that each person will require (through the design of free will and human choice) and the degree of revelation that each person will receive. In a sense, unlike most maximizing rational agent problems, god chooses the objective function and the constraints so as to maximize his pleasure.
Now some may object along the free will dimension (perhaps they do not completely understand that this god supposedly designed free will as well). Let us assume for a moment that he did not. In this case, this god's choice can be compared to that of a Stackleberg leader. In a Stackleberg leader game, the leader selects the value of its choice variables so as to maximize its utility taking into account the effect that these decisions will have on the follower. That is God knows in advance what each person will choose according to their free will and thus can react to it in advance so that his "will can be made manifest" (little xianese there).
For those who are not familiar the theory of optimal rational choice, this god that knight describes basically chooses the fraction of heaven-bound and hell-bound so as to maximize his pleasure. Given that he controls the constraints in the problem, his choice becomes then one of unconstrained maximization (only natural when considering an omnimax creator) he can select any fraction of heaven bound between [0,1] such that free will is not violated.
I think I'll give this some more thought and better fleshing out, and then take it into the big boys arena. Any suggestions, especially from those who understand optimal control, would be appreciated. If I work it out, I may be able to mount an attack on the free will defense based only on the assumption that God is rational.
We'll see. Have a good weekend! Must brainwash the undergrads with some BS economics 🙄 . (Bachelor of Science of course 😉 )
Originally posted by teleriontemporarily sacrificing himself to himself
[b] If the price was right, I'd probably have thrown in my grandmother as well.
You must have been quite a despicable character indeed!
I used to think that if Heaven and hell existed (I believed they did not) that God ran Heaven and the Devil ran Hell. I did not realise that God made both and was also in charge of Hell.
In charge of ...[text shortened]... Must brainwash the undergrads with some BS economics 🙄 . (Bachelor of Science of course 😉 )[/b]
Odin did this hanging from the world-tree Yggdrassil, to secure the runes of knowledge for humankind as well as the Aesir. Pierced in the side by a spear he was, too--according to the myth. 😉
Originally posted by CanadaguyI believe it's possible to live life by your own standards and still get into Heaven. God looks at what's on the inside, not what's on the outside.
I refuse to live up to anybody elses standards except my own. If that means I'm going to hell. So be it. If I could sell my soul for a better vantage point while i'm there, I'd do it.
Personally, I like to believe, that I could look him/her/it in the eye(if they have one) and say I have no regrets about the life I lived. If I get in, then pary on. If not, then I"d rather be in hell.
Personally I believe that there are probably some atheists who get into Heaven because they love people and lead moral lives. I also believe that there are those who believe that they are saved because of their religion but are not.
You sound like you believe in God because you think you're going to hell. If you make God your standard you should be ok. I don't really subscribe to a religon either.
Originally posted by telerionRound here those type of kids spent a lot of time with their light illuminating the inside of a locker.
Even before this I was the typical Jesus freak kid. You know the kids that wear the Jesus Saves hats and "let their light shine." 🙂
As for me, I'm taking any serious offer on my soul. Let the bidding start at 5 recs.
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressI don't tink you read my list. The things on it are things I've been told that I'm going to hell for.
I believe it's possible to live life by your own standards and still get into Heaven. God looks at what's on the inside, not what's on the outside.
Personally I believe that there are probably some atheists who get into Heaven because they love people and lead moral lives. I also believe that there are those who believe that they are saved be ...[text shortened]... . If you make God your standard you should be ok. I don't really subscribe to a religon either.
I don't really think I'm going to hell, although sometimes I think I'm already there. It's just that I don't really want to share eternity with people who can't take a joke or who are really uptight.
So If I can't watch the Simpsons, while listening to Marilyn Manson and masturbating in heaven then I don't really want to be there.
Originally posted by CanadaguyI think there's more to life than the things you described (and Heaven for that matter), but regardless of what other people think, it's your own personal relationship with God that counts.
I don't tink you read my list. The things on it are things I've been told that I'm going to hell for.
I don't really think I'm going to hell, although sometimes I think I'm already there. It's just that I don't really want to share eternity with people who can't take a joke or who are really uptight.
So If I can't watch the Simpsons, wh ...[text shortened]... le listening to Marilyn Manson and masturbating in heaven then I don't really want to be there.
Romans 11:33 "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"
If somebody condemns you to hell, just remenber they're not qualified.
Peace and live well. 🙂
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressMy thoughts exactly. Thanks
I think there's more to life than the things you described (and Heaven for that matter), but regardless of what other people think, it's your own personal relationship with God that counts.
Romans 11:33 "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"
...[text shortened]... somebody condemns you to hell, just remenber they're not qualified.
Peace and live well. 🙂
Originally posted by mufin78manonly one? See this is where the problem lies. NOt with selling your soul, but devaluing it. On the open market a soul is very valuable. Considering there are after all only two buyers. One guy expects you'll give him yours, the other will give you anything you want.
I'd sell mine for a delicious ice cream bar....mmmm....chocolatey goodness.......
So wouldn't it be better to ask for a ice cream bar whenever you wanted one. If the devil balks at you price then the other guy can no doubt give you all the ice cream bars you want. You'll just have to wait 60 to 70 years for delevery.
sure
it is possible to make a deal with satan for ur soul
i refer to the "black book" also known as the lesser key of solomon or the goetta..it has detailed instuctions on ritual to do just that
i think anyone making such a deal is an idiot
one of the cretins that can not think ahead at all
hardly the type of person who plays chess
cheers
art