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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Christians who believe in a hell of eternal suffering are self-serving, even if this is on a subconscious level. It stems from a deviant desire for others who are not as good as them or lived lives they don't approve of to be punished. Their own 'goodness' is vindicated by a God who punishes lesser human beings. Such a belief is born of 'spite.' It has nothing to do with divine righteousness. It is all about human weakness.
Christians who believe in a hell of eternal suffering are self-serving,
To this Christian it is to be awestruck that from the mouth of the One the world's greatest words of mercy, pardon, forgivness, came also the most fearsome words of judgment.
I am in awe.
Should I pretend that Jesus didn't utter both kinds of teachings?
I can't honestly pretend and choose what I like and reject what I don't.
even if this is on a subconscious level. It stems from a deviant desire for others who are not as good as them or lived lives they don't approve of to be punished.
if someone warns you about going over Niagara Falls if you don't get out of the river, it doesn't matter his secret motives may subconsciously be.
No one was purer than Jesus. And these words of warning to believe in Him came from Him. Jesus spoke these things among all the other marvelous things Jesus spoke.
Even on a philosophical level, genetic fallacy is not reliable.
" It is not true because the subconscious of the repeater is amiss."
Their own 'goodness' is vindicated by a God who punishes lesser human beings.
No. I have first come to the point where a circle was drawn around ME and ME alone. I was before God alone. The "other guy" had nothing to do with it. It was between me and God.
The merit I stand on is Christ.
I do not stand upon my own merit.
I have to go now.
30 Dec 17
Originally posted by @freakykbhLack of belief in the existence of the supposed "gift" is clearly the issue.
Acceptance or rejection of the gift is equated with salvation or loss.
Lack of belief is not the issue.
30 Dec 17
Originally posted by @sonshipit certainly does matter what his secret motives may subconsciously be if there is no river and there is no waterfall and the person he claims he is warning is not in a boat.
if someone warns you about going over Niagara Falls if you don't get out of the river, it doesn't matter his secret motives may subconsciously be.
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Originally posted by @fmfin that case you are right.
it certainly does matter what his secret motives may subconsciously be if there is no river and there is no waterfall and the person he claims he is warning is not in a boat.
Now people have to decide whether or not they regard Jesus Christ Who spoke these things to the world ... if He was a crackpot.
If He doesn't sound like or act like a biggest history's crackpot, then His words are to be taken seriously.
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Originally posted by @fmfNo, being reconciled to God is the issue.
Lack of belief in the existence of the supposed "gift" is clearly the issue.
You are hunting for a technicality or logical anomaly which makes it not important to not be reconciled to God. Such a thing does not exist.
And you are a fool to trust in your ability to concoct one.
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30 Dec 17
2 edits
I sympathize somewhat with thoughtful people who seem perplexed at the question of "Well what does Jesus save me from? Not being saved?"
Jesus spoke of every kind of sin may be forgiven except an eternal sin. An eternal sin has no forgiveness.
Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, 'He has an evil spirit'."
It must be that to reject the Lord Jesus is an eternal sin the guilt of which one will bear forever.
While I could not be too strong about this, it appears to me that rejection of Christ is making God a liar and blasphemy of an eternal nature. Maybe God sees it as akin to saying the Holy Spirit is an evil Spirit because it is a lying liar.
"If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, because this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son.
He who believes into the Son of God has the testimony in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar because he has not believed in the testimony which God has testified concerning His Son.
And this is the testimony, that God gave to us eternal life and this life is in His Son.
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:9-13)
Eternal salvation is not nonsensical as the Thread says.
What anyone reading this thread has been informed of is adequate.
There may be some unknowns about particular cases we cannot figure out. But what we who read here have heard from the Gospel is adequate.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeI’ll Amen that post.
Christians who believe in a hell of eternal suffering are self-serving, even if this is on a subconscious level. It stems from a deviant desire for others who are not as good as them or lived lives they don't approve of to be punished. Their own 'goodness' is vindicated by a God who punishes lesser human beings. Such a belief is born of 'spite.' It has nothing to do with divine righteousness. It is all about human weakness.
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What I wonder is, is there a correlation between those who do not believe that that was God as a Man dying and rising from the dead to save us, AND their attitude about eternal punishment.
It seems often the case to me, that those who don't believe Jesus is God also don't understand the enormity of the crime of rejecting Him.
30 Dec 17
Originally posted by @fmfThere is no rejection of its existence without contemplation of its existence.
Lack of belief in the existence of the supposed "gift" is clearly the issue.
There is nothing left at that point but acceptance (His work as replacement of your work) or rejection (standing before God the quintessential self-made man).
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30 Dec 17
Originally posted by @sonshipWhat I wonder is how in the name of all that is holy, you think that that keeping people supernaturally alive and burning them for eternity somehow represents any form of judgment which is congruent with any crime. ANY crime.
What I wonder is, is there a correlation between those who do not believe that that was God as a Man dying and rising from the dead to save us, AND their attitude about eternal punishment.
It seems often the case to me, that those who don't believe Jesus is God also don't understand the enormity of the crime of rejecting Him.
That you call a failure to believe a “crime” punishable by eternal torture, when you believe in predestination, is absolutely incomprehensible.
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Originally posted by @sonshipPity you had to go before responding to the last sentence in my post, which was actually the most pertinent.Christians who believe in a hell of eternal suffering are self-serving,
To this Christian it is to be awestruck that from the mouth of the One the world's greatest words of mercy, pardon, forgivness, came also the most fearsome words of judgment.
I am in awe.
Should I pretend that Jesus didn't utter both kinds of teachings?
I can't ...[text shortened]... od.
The merit I stand on is Christ.
I do not stand upon my own merit.
I have to go now.
'Such a belief is born of 'spite.' It has nothing to do with divine righteousness. It is all about human weakness.'
I simply don't believe your statement - "The "other guy" had nothing to do with it. It was between me and God." (And deep down, if you are truly honest with yourself, you don't believe it either). Linking eternal suffering as you do with divine righteousness is an affront to God and a manifestation of your inner weakness where your own salvation is dependent upon others enduring a miserable fate.
In short your misunderstanding about God's righteousness and eternal suffering is a result of too much thought and not enough heart.
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Originally posted by @sonship“It seems often the case to me, that those who don't believe Jesus is God also don't understand the enormity of the crime of rejecting Him.”
What I wonder is, is there a correlation between those who do not believe that that was God as a Man dying and rising from the dead to save us, AND their attitude about eternal punishment.
It seems often the case to me, that those who don't believe Jesus is God also don't understand the enormity of the crime of rejecting Him.
We who simply lack belief but are happy to accept such gifts, thank goodness Freaky says, “Acceptance or rejection of the gift is equated with salvation or loss. Lack of belief is not the issue.”
I fear for whichever of you might have it wrong.
30 Dec 17
Originally posted by @js357Why would you ever fear for someone else's perspective on any issue?
“It seems often the case to me, that those who don't believe Jesus is God also don't understand the enormity of the crime of rejecting Him.”
We who simply lack belief but are happy to accept such gifts, thank goodness Freaky says, “Acceptance or rejection of the gift is equated with salvation or loss. Lack of belief is not the issue.”
I fear for whichever of you might have it wrong.
30 Dec 17
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeGod made something that runs on God.
Pity you had to go before responding to the last sentence in my post, which was actually the most pertinent.
'Such a belief is born of 'spite.' It has nothing to do with divine righteousness. It is all about human weakness.'
I simply don't believe your statement - "The "other guy" had nothing to do with it. It was between me and God." (And d ...[text shortened]... God's righteousness and eternal suffering is a result of too much thought and not enough heart.
Put something besides God in it, it ceases to run as designed.
Whether articulated thusly or not, those who choose to run on His are simply making a decision on what will fuel them.
A conscious decision against that operational status results in the same thing for everyone so inclined.