13 Jan 07
Originally posted by PalynkaWith JT missing, it's shown Carvalho for what he is.
I'm defending an unpopular position, so it's not me who has to 'open my eyes'. That doesn't make me right, of course, but it's hardly because I didn't bother to look at the issue.
Edit2: Carvalho mediocre? You can't be serious.
I could find a kid on a parks pitch to do what he does - and no, I'm not kidding.
13 Jan 07
Originally posted by blade68Ok, so go find a kid that can become UEFA's defender of the year (like Carvalho in 2004, not to mention Portuguese Player of the Year in 2003) and become his agent. You'll make a bundle.
With JT missing, it's shown Carvalho for what he is.
I could find a kid on a parks pitch to do what he does - and no, I'm not kidding.
Carvalho is a fabulous player, but no defender can do much alone. Ferreira is not a central defender and Boulahrouz hasn't been playing well at all.
13 Jan 07
Originally posted by PalynkaThis thread WAS about Wycombe and it's a shame that once again it's become about The Special One and Chelsea.
Ok, so go find a kid that can become UEFA's defender of the year (like Carvalho in 2004, not to mention Portuguese Player of the Year in 2003) and become his agent. You'll make a bundle.
Carvalho is a fabulous player, but no defender can do much alone. Ferreira is not a central defender and Boulahrouz hasn't been playing well at all.
True, Carvalho's won awards while playing for Porto (where they dominated their league) and Portugal (one good tournament - remember Phil Babb for ROI in 1994?) But what personal awards has he won whilst with Chelsea?
He's a overrated whinging, diving cheat of the highest order, made in the image of his gaffer. John Terry has carried him for 2 seasons. Note the amount of goals Chelsea are conceding with Carvalho in charge at the back? Had Gallas been happy at Chelsea then Carvalho would still be sitting on the bench most weeks.
He's one in a long line of foreign imports (and this is not directed solely at Chelsea) who have and will continue to slowly turn the British game into the same pantomine as the Spanish and Italian leagues.
13 Jan 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Angry BoyWhinging? Diving?!?!? That's ridiculous, he's a defender you know? But from your last paragraph I can see perfectly well where that came from.
This thread WAS about Wycombe and it's a shame that once again it's become about The Special One and Chelsea.
True, Carvalho's won awards while playing for Porto (where they dominated their league) and Portugal (one good tournament - remember Phil Babb for ROI in 1994?) But what personal awards has he won whilst with Chelsea?
He's a overrated whingin to slowly turn the British game into the same pantomine as the Spanish and Italian leagues.
Carvalho won the awards because he's a fabulous player. Terry never played alongside Ferreira AND with Hilario as a gk, did he? No central defender can do all the work by himself, it's ridiculous to suggest so. And let's not forget the overall slump Chelsea's in.
Terry is a great central defender, but so is Carvalho. To call him mediocre and claim 'neutrality' is absurd.
13 Jan 07
Well,
Looks like RM has had enough of the "special need one" and is refusing to use his vast wealth to back Moanrinho in the transfer window.
His days are numbered at Chelsea, i will make a note to follow Maureens future record away from Chelsea and Porto to see how well his managerial and motivational skills will do for him away from a easy league where the top club has been dominant for years, and from a Club that gave him a disgusting amount of money to buy the title......
13 Jan 07
Originally posted by PalynkaPlease don't tell me that you are so one-eyed that you don't see Carvalho's constant whinging and diving? He's clearly been watching too much of Robben and Drogba on the training ground.
Whinging? Diving?!?!? That's ridiculous, he's a defender you know? But from your last paragraph I can see perfectly well where that came from.
Carvalho won the awards because he's a fabulous player. Terry never played alongside Ferreira AND with Hilario as a gk, did he? No central defender can do all the work by himself, it's ridiculous to suggest so. And ...[text shortened]... ral defender, but so is Carvalho. To call him mediocre and claim 'neutrality' is absurd.
Carvalho won an award in Portugal playing for a dominant team and at the EC's where Portugal played well, most of the other "big" teams didn't and he had some good games. Like I said Phil Babb was the name on everyone's lips after WC 1994, and I know just how poor he was at Liverpool. Anyone's capable of a few good games.
Carvalho is not a "great central defender". And please don't misquote me, where did I use the words "mediocre" (he is though) and "neutrality"?
13 Jan 07
Originally posted by millermanYou do know that in 'the easy league' the 'dominant club' was in 5th place and playing woefully (a bit like Liverpool) when he took over, don't you? And that he left from União de Leiria which were ahead of the sooooo dominant Porto at that time, don't you?
Well,
Looks like RM has had enough of the "special need one" and is refusing to use his vast wealth to back Moanrinho in the transfer window.
His days are numbered at Chelsea, i will make a note to follow Maureens future record away from Chelsea and Porto to see how well his managerial and motivational skills will do for him away from a easy league w ...[text shortened]... t for years, and from a Club that gave him a disgusting amount of money to buy the title......
13 Jan 07
Originally posted by Angry BoyI'm not misquoting you, I was quoting blade with whom I was discussing when you came along.
Please don't tell me that you are so one-eyed that you don't see Carvalho's constant whinging and diving? He's clearly been watching too much of Robben and Drogba on the training ground.
Carvalho won an award in Portugal playing for a dominant team and at the EC's where Portugal played well, most of the other "big" teams didn't and he had some good game ...[text shortened]... quote me, where did I use the words "mediocre" (he is though) and "neutrality"?
And yes, Carvalho doesn't whine or dive, except in your head. Your comments about Drogba and Robben and how Chelsea clearly
Go check out how many defenders win that award in Portugal and then come talk to me. Ok? I've seen many seasons of Carvalho before Chelsea and you're completely deluded if you think he had 'a few good games'. He's been consistent for all his career, including now. If you see the games and the goals, it's not because of him that they've been conceding, but I guess you can only see him 'diving and whining'. 😵
As for how such a non-great, non-mediocre could be alongside these players, you tell me!
* 1997-98 Spain Fernando Hierro (Real Madrid)
* 1998-99 Netherlands Jaap Stam (Manchester United)
* 1999-00 Netherlands Jaap Stam (Manchester United)
* 2000-01 Argentina Roberto Ayala (Valencia)
* 2001-02 Brazil Roberto Carlos (Real Madrid)
* 2002-03 Brazil Roberto Carlos (Real Madrid)
* 2003-04 Portugal Ricardo Carvalho (FC Porto)
* 2004-05 England John Terry (Chelsea)
* 2005-06 Spain Carles Puyol (FC Barcelona)
A few good games, right? Why aren't there other players there that just had a few good games? LMAO!!!
13 Jan 07
1 edit
"You do know that in 'the easy league' the 'dominant club' was in 5th place and playing woefully (a bit like Liverpool) when he took over, don't you? And that he left from União de Leiria which were ahead of the sooooo dominant Porto at that time, don't you?"
Porto were in a mini slump at the time i.e. THAT season.
They've always been one of the big three. They'd won the league 5 times in a row and came second the previous season. A season in which they also won the cup and qualified for the QF's of the ECL.
Some turnaround!
13 Jan 07
Originally posted by PalynkaHe won it in a year where Poto won the ECL and Portugal did well at the EC. Yes he was PART of that but it kind of gives him a head start in the award doesn't it?
I'm not misquoting you, I was quoting blade with whom I was discussing when you came along.
And yes, Carvalho doesn't whine or dive, except in your head. Your comments about Drogba and Robben and how Chelsea clearly
Go check out how many defenders win that award in Portugal and then come talk to me. Ok? I've seen many seasons of Carvalho before Chelse ...[text shortened]... right? Why aren't there other players there that just had a few good games? LMAO!!!
Ask anyone (non Chelsea fans) in Britain whether they think Carvalho is not a whinging diving cheat. I don't think you'll find many people who share your view.
"it's not because of him that they've been conceding" who's fault is it then? Henry Kissenger? Or maybe it's ....
drum roll......
Mourinho!
13 Jan 07
Originally posted by Angry BoyMini-slump? THAT season? For three years before Mourinho arrived Porto didn't win the title of the league where they're soooo dominant. We were in a 3-year slump where we played poorly. If that's mini to you, it's huge to us. Just ask Porto fans what they think of Fernando Santos and Octavio Machado and they'll tell you of a soulless team that seemed clueless on the pitch.
Porto were in a mini slump at the time i.e. THAT season.
They've always been one of the big three. They'd won the league 5 times in a row and came second the previous season. A season in which they also won the cup and qualified for the QF's of the ECL.
Some turnaround!
13 Jan 07
Originally posted by Angry BoyOf course, it did. Those awards are obviously also dependent of the team, but that's valid for every player. Especially because he WAS clearly the best defender that year.
He won it in a year where Poto won the ECL and Portugal did well at the EC. Yes he was PART of that but it kind of gives him a head start in the award doesn't it?
Ask anyone (non Chelsea fans) in Britain whether they think Carvalho is not a whinging diving cheat. I don't think you'll find many people who share your view.
"it's not because of him that ...[text shortened]... is it then? Henry Kissenger? Or maybe it's ....
drum roll......
Mourinho!
As for Britain, it's hard to find an unbiased view on any Portuguese player. Must have something to do with us beating you guys 3 times in a row in major tournaments. I understand, it hurts. France has the same effect on us.
Whose fault is it? Kenyon. Paulo Ferreira is playing out of position and they have zero central defenders to play alongside him, Hilario is a good third choice keeper but he's obviously not Cech. Mourinho's policy (which he defended like if it was written in the Bible) was always 2 players for each position (i.e. 2+2 central defenders). That this season things have went completely amok isn't down to him, but with problems with the board.
13 Jan 07
Originally posted by PalynkaYou're saying that you didn't win the league in
Mini-slump? THAT season? For three years before Mourinho arrived Porto didn't win the title of the league where they're soooo dominant. We were in a 3-year slump where we played poorly. If that's mini to you, it's huge to us. Just ask Porto fans what they think of Fernando Santos and Octavio Machado and they'll tell you of a soulless team that seemed clueless on the pitch.
1994/95; 1995/96; 1996/97; 1997/98; 1998/99
then finish second in 99/00?
So he didn't take over after 5 league championships in 6 years?
13 Jan 07
2 edits
Originally posted by Palynka"You guys" - I'm Welsh not English. I was wearing my Portugese football shirt (that I bought on my annual holiday to the Algarve) for the England matches in '04 and '06. So if there's any bias from me then it's in your (Portugals) favour!
Of course, it did. Those awards are obviously also dependent of the team, but that's valid for every player. Especially because he WAS clearly the best defender that year.
As for Britain, it's hard to find an unbiased view on any Portuguese player. Must have something to do with us beating you guys 3 times in a row in major tournaments. I understand, it h eason things have went completely amok isn't down to him, but with problems with the board.
There are only problems off the pitch with the board because there are "problems" on the pitch. i.e Chelsea are not top of the league and Abramovich is obviously smarting. That's down to Mourinho. Please don't delude yourself that it's Kenyon's fault for not giving Mourinho MORE money to spend in January because CURRENTLY he doesn't have 2 WORLD CLASS players fit and available in each position.
Edit - In other words Mourinho's policy of having 2 quality players in each position isn't exactly ground breaking is it? I'm sure most managers would love to be in his position of being (pretty much the only one in a bidding war!) able to afford it!
13 Jan 07
Originally posted by Angry Boy99/00, 00/01 the coach was Fernando Santos and in 01/02 the coach was Octavio Machado. Mourinho came about after around 2/3rds of that season were already gone. In that final third, he managed to lift us from 5th and playing woefully to 3rd and playing reasonably well. He declared at the end of that season that Porto would be Champions in 02/03. And they were.
You're saying that you didn't win the league in
1994/95; 1995/96; 1996/97; 1997/98; 1998/99
then finish second in 99/00?
So he didn't take over after 5 league championships in 6 years?
So no, he didn't take over after 5 championship wins in 6 years.