the clans - what can be done

@VESPIN I'm very sad for you.

@lstcyr said
@VESPIN I'm very sad for you.

@very-rusty said
@ Istcyr, You should feel sad for yourself! VESPIN has been doing very well. You should concentrate on your Clan and improving it!

-VR

@lstcyr said
I also feel sad for you. Does the Kool Aid taste good?

Would the following help anything? What if the system automatically closed a match and assigned points when one team was the inevitable winner? In other words if my clan was up 5-3 with only one game left, the system would close the match and assign the points. The final game could continue but it wouldn’t matter when it ended because the match points would have been rewarded. This would help clans with slow players and make it harder on some clans to “gather” points for the following year.

@lstcyr said
Would the following help anything? What if the system automatically closed a match and assigned points when one team was the inevitable winner? In other words if my clan was up 5-3 with only one game left, the system would close the match and assign the points. The final game could continue but it wouldn’t matter when it ended because the match points would have been rewarded. ...[text shortened]... clans with slow players and make it harder on some clans to “gather” points for the following year.

@venda the idea has some merit as it could help with the issue of clans resigning challenges before the end of the year when they can afford to lose points and holding back others so they can cash in the points in the new year, i think at the end of the year only the system should automatically award any challenges where there is already a clear winner so the start of the next year would be only carrying over those where either clan can still win

The more I think about the whole clan system, the more ridiculous it looks and the more I understand people getting brassed off with it and walking away. Any competitive environment which rewards deliberate loss isn't fit for purpose, and this simply isn't fit for purpose.

The fist step to addressing this would be for teams to keep their points, so that they fight for every last point going. If you win 5-2 then the winning team bags ten points and losing team four.

As soon as every point counts the mindset will change and maybe instead of this being a dying form of accountancy it will become a more realistic environment for groups of people to test their chess skills as opposed to clan leaders playing a system which doesn't really reflect the truth.

It just has to change.

Happy Monday all

@medullah said
The more I think about the whole clan system, the more ridiculous it looks and the more I understand people getting brassed off with it and walking away. Any competitive environment which rewards deliberate loss isn't fit for purpose, and this simply isn't fit for purpose.

The fist step to addressing this would be for teams to keep their points, so that they fight for ev ...[text shortened]... aying a system which doesn't really reflect the truth.

It just has to change.

Happy Monday all

@medullah
Pete,

So far I have seen many positions on the matter of resigning meaningless games. Many of those expressing opinions are not looking at all of the ramifications of the actions, since many of the naysayers are the very ones that instituted the system we have in place now. I, for one, was not a proponent when it was instituted, but I really have never cared what rules they institute as long as everyone plays by the same rules and that the system change occurs at the beginning of the year and not during the year.

That being said, the claim that resigning meaningless games occurs nowhere else, well that simply isn't true. It happens in many major sporting event such as baseball, basketball, soccer, etc... When they set up a best of 7 or a best of 5 or even a best of 3 championship, it is the same thing. Once one team has achieved the necessary number of wins ( ie 4 in the the best of 7 and so on), the rest of the remaining games are not even played. If you look at a 5 man challenge, it simply becomes a best out of 10, or 5.5/6 out of 10 wins it. The rest are meaningless. In that regard it is a no brainer. I have played in team chess championships where, games were drawn once the title was decided. The Ryder Cup in golf was that way for years.

Now, for those who claim it is being done to reduce ratings, I laugh because the system is so miserably set up as it is. You have some many ways to manipulate the ratings, many being currently employed as we speak by the clan currently in first place. It isn't hard to spot, all you have to do is look. Some folks have championed a separate rating system for clan play, which would be great, except Russ doesn't want to spend the time, energy and money to set it up. That doesn't seem to be a viable solution. You could perhaps adjust the calculation for the rating so resignations don't lower the rating, but I am not sure how they would descriminate against a legitimate resignation because you are lost in the game.

Would you rather instead of resigning meaningless games, they just quit moving altogether until the time runs out and the opponent claims the skull? Same result/effect, just no resignation. You see, it is a silly notion. This is not about honor, and it never has been. The other thing that I have often laughed about is when the player who resigns his games because the match was over and was losing both games already. Everyone assumes they were not losing already.

Now, if you want to revise the scoring and make every game meaningful and played to the end, revise the scoring system. I personally am not sure rewarding the losing team has merit or not, but, you could make every won game a point for the winning team, but then you are just really playing a bunch of sigles matches. The team concept is moot. I don't think you could really add on a winning team bonus because a one man challenge vs a 10 man challege you not be able to win the same prize. Perhaps a staggered award might work, who knows?

There is a faction here who have actively tried to blow up the clan system for years now. There have been three sets of rules employed here since I began as a clan leader 16 years ago. They are still at it. Flipping the finger at the system won't solve anything. Changing the rules just changes the effect. Figure out how to stop the collusion. Figure out how to stop the ones hellbent on blowing things up and you have won the battle.

For the record, I avoid the forums these days because there are too many juveniles in here with their thumbs down or their sniping. I was asked to post a position, and I have done so. Anyone that wishes to speak about this intelligently can message me. I just don't have the time or the inclantion to play tit for tat.

Good luck

Well said!

@lstcyr
Lets see..... You have negative points still? Close to it? In my opinion we are in first as we play fair. The only difference here other than you can't lead anything is I don't feel sad for your lack of leadership or play. Give your clan to someone who can lead.

@shortcircuit said
@medullah
Pete,

So far I have seen many positions on the matter of resigning meaningless games. Many of those expressing opinions are not looking at all of the ramifications of the actions, since many of the naysayers are the very ones that instituted the system we have in place now. I, for one, was not a proponent when it was instituted, but I really have never care ...[text shortened]... ently can message me. I just don't have the time or the inclantion to play tit for tat.

Good luck

@vespin said
@lstcyr
Lets see..... You have negative points still? Close to it? In my opinion we are in first as we play fair. The only difference here other than you can't lead anything is I don't feel sad for your lack of leadership or play. Give your clan to someone who can lead.

Correct.Guitar alliance are in first place as they have lost the least challenges.
IVV,Metallica and Breaking bad are not even on the first page on that list!