As I understand it, the benefits/welfare systems are there to assist those who cannot help themselves for some reason.
In the case of disability benefits, people who are not able to work for some reason are assisted so that they do not end up destitute and starving (leave aside the "long term sick" with such ailments as depression, stress, "bad backs" and other unprovable illnesses).
For unemployment benefit it exists as a kind of safety net so that those who lose their jobs are not flung onto the streets before they can find another.
All very commendable.
However, how do we deal with those who abuse the system?
Many long term unemployed have no interest in finding a job.
We live in a civilised society, and cannot just throw people onto the streets to starve. Yet these people are basically stealing from the rest of us who do work and pay taxes.
I have claimed unemployment benefit myself before, and was grateful for it. I would do so again if I needed to. Yet one thing that surprised me as I searched for work and visited the benefits office, is that the staff there seem slightly shocked and unbelieving to discover that you are actually trying to find a job. It's like they expect people to sign on for as long as they can get away with it.
As for disability benefits, the people who scam that are cheating those that really need it. Not to mention everyone who is treated in an NHS hospital, draws a state pension, or otherwise makes use of taxpayers money.
Everyone knows someone who has scammed this - when I was unemployed, the primary objective of most of my associates was to get on disability benefits because the money was better and you got more lenient treatment. "Go to your doctor and tell them you're depressed" was the standard piece of advice.
I work near a job centre, and every day see the real drop outs signing on, then cashing their cheques at the post office, then going next door to the chemists for their methadone.
What, exactly, do these people contribute to society?
Not to mention the fact that most of the ones addicted to drugs are contibuting to the local crime figures.
Originally posted by VargWhile I've never actually claimed benefits since I was a student (in those days you were able to claim benefits between years, which was, I think, technically, a scam) I do think there are problems with the current system.
As I understand it, the benefits/welfare systems are there to assist those who cannot help themselves for some reason.
In the case of disability benefits, people who are not able to work for some reason are assisted so that they do not end up destitute and starving (leave aside the "long term sick" with such ailments as depression, stress, "bad backs" and othe fact that most of the ones addicted to drugs are contibuting to the local crime figures.
For example, if a doctor had more time to treat patients, then they wouldn't see signing someone off as depressed as the easy option which might allow them to catch up a bit on the queue outside. In saying that, there are back ailments etc which I'm told are very easy to fake and difficult to prove so.
I've never really understood why there was a different level of benefits for those 'on the sick'. If there was the one level, there would be no incentive to fake illness, so all sorts of time could be saved.
The bottom line is, though, that I think the state ought to provide a basic level of income for people who cannot work. Everyone should be encouraged to contribute - for example, they should raise the minimum wage so that it is worth working.
I've no problem with people being given community service type jobs on the minimum wage while they look for a 'proper' job. Edit - and I mean by compulsion, if necessary.
Originally posted by RedmikeActually, you've just reminded me - one of the annoying things about getting off the dole was that there was little incentive, unless the job was well paid.
While I've never actually claimed benefits since I was a student (in those days you were able to claim benefits between years, which was, I think, technically, a scam) I do think there are problems with the current system.
For example, if a doctor had more time to treat patients, then they wouldn't see signing someone off as depressed as the easy option w ven community service type jobs on the minimum wage while they look for a 'proper' job.
At the time I was claiming (around 1995-1996), I was getting £35 per week, plus rent of £40 was also being paid = £75 per week, which was perfectly adequate. Not exactle a life of luxury but then it shouldn't be. I could afford all I needed.
I was willing to take a job - any job. Yet the jobs which were easy to get only paid about £160-£180 per week.
So effectively you would have to work full time for only an extra £100 per week.
A decent minimum wage would help here.
Community service type jobs on the minimum wage is also another good idea, since people fall into a culture of idleness after a while.
It is a problem and my view has always been that it's the price you have to pay. However, I don't think enough is done to get people back to work and it has reached the point that for some people, their culture has changed so that work isn't the thing you automatically do when you leave school or university.
I have met honest, genuine people who aren't trying to scam as such but it genuinely doesn't even occur to them to get a job.
I'm not sure what you do about it. I don't like forcing people to do community work or such like even though the State would get something back for the money it pays out. I have never claimed benefit but have been out of work for short periods and feel that if I did have to do community service in that time, finding a job would be even more difficult.
I would be interested to hear of any practical solutions anyone could come up with.
Originally posted by sasquatch672Welfare and benefits has nothing to do with socialism.
Socialism is bad. Bad all around. I understand that there really are truly needy people, for whom society should look after. But there's too much of it now. For one, socialism requires much higher tax rates - meaning that the hard workers subsidize the lifestyles of people who don't want to work. The government's also denying a man the fruits of hi ...[text shortened]... aning a much bigger house because we kept our money instead of giving it to the government.
- Joined
- 20 May 05
- Moves
- 2728
Originally posted by VargThe addicts where normal once (unless you can be born an addict then they can´t do anything about it).
As I understand it, the benefits/welfare systems are there to assist those who cannot help themselves for some reason.
In the case of disability benefits, people who are not able to work for some reason are assisted so that they do not end up destitute and starving (leave aside the "long term sick" with such ailments as depression, stress, "bad backs" and othe ...[text shortened]... fact that most of the ones addicted to drugs are contibuting to the local crime figures.
Some of these addicts became addicts because they were raised wrong but that´s not their fault, or couldn´t take a crisis because they are weaker or they were just curious.
One way or the other, they hardly can help themselves except stealing, dealing prostitution as even their surrounding environment push them down a bit a la no job no flat - no flat no job.
What distinguish us from the animals is that we are willing to help those who can´t help themselves (thats why babies are sooooo cute).
I would like to make a difference between those maggots who are not willing to work or those who earn much and their wifes claim they are without a job and those who really need our help to survive.