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Originally posted by EcstremeVenomFreedom to me means being able to do whatever I want, as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.
depends, freedom to me is the freedom to do w/e i want. it doesnt exist
I also believe that this freedom must be rooted in equal oppurtunity (through things like education), as otherwise freedom loses it meaning.
It is unfair to do better in a system just because of where 'daddy came from'.
Originally posted by Bad wolfFreedom = the absence of force.
Freedom to me means being able to do whatever I want, as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.
I also believe that this freedom must be rooted in equal oppurtunity (through things like education), as otherwise freedom loses it meaning.
It is unfair to do better in a system just because of where 'daddy came from'.
Freedom is not equal opportunity.
If you recognise your right to live free then you must also recognise the right of your neighbour to live free i.e free from force, threats of force and fraud.
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Originally posted by WajomaIf you recognise your right to live free then you must also recognise the right of your neighbour to live free i.e free from force, threats of force and fraud.
Freedom = the absence of force.
Freedom is not equal opportunity.
If you recognise your right to live free then you must also recognise the right of your neighbour to live free i.e free from force, threats of force and fraud.
Yes, I do.
Freedom is not equal opportunity.
Why not?
Originally posted by wedgehead2Utter bollox
You see the light!
100% inheritance tax is the only way to get equal opportunities.
Freedom is being able to dispose of your lifes aquisitions as you see fit. Whether this is donating to a charity or leaving it to family or friends. All that happens when stinking guvamint tries to seize property that might otherwise be left to family, friends or persons of your choice is that people secure their assets in trust funds or any of a dozen other ways to keep the thieving guvamint shands off. It happens now where there are exhorbitant death duties.
Originally posted by Bad wolfWhy not? For the very reason I just stated.
[b]If you recognise your right to live free then you must also recognise the right of your neighbour to live free i.e free from force, threats of force and fraud.
Yes, I do.
Freedom is not equal opportunity.
Why not?[/b]
Freedom is the absence of force. The only way to 'make' equal opportunity is with large amounts of force and threats of force. It's one or the other.
And what is so wrong with parents trying to provide something a little extra for their children.
Originally posted by WajomaYou represent the distorted view of freedom that freedom is all to do with the individual being able to do anything they want, rather than the view of freedom that giving people equal opportunities is giving them freedom. Your idea of freedom is deeply flawed, as by "giving everyone freedom to do what they want" simply leads to the wealthy being able to infringe on other people's freedoms to a equal start in life.
Utter bollox
Freedom is being able to dispose of your lifes aquisitions as you see fit. Whether this is donating to a charity or leaving it to family or friends. All that happens when stinking guvamint tries to seize property that might otherwise be left to family, friends or persons of your choice is that people secure their assets in trust funds or any ...[text shortened]... keep the thieving guvamint shands off. It happens now where there are exhorbitant death duties.
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Originally posted by WajomaI don't think you are understanding what I'm trying to say.
Why not? For the very reason I just stated.
Freedom is the absence of force. The only way to 'make' equal opportunity is with large amounts of force and threats of force. It's one or the other.
And what is so wrong with parents trying to provide something a little extra for their children.
My main point is that schools that are underfunded shouldn't be, if they are in poorer areas, they should still get the same amount of funds to work with as schools in richer areas, at least in the public school system.
I'm not trying to enforce equal outcome, no, but I want equal input, at least by the government.
And what is so wrong with parents trying to provide something a little extra for their children.
- Then they should pay for it out of their own pocket (in private schools); the government shouldn't intervene and give those in richer areas more money to work with in their schools; the govt should give all schools equal amounts (per child perhaps) of money to work with.
How is this using force?
More equality equals more force. The anathema of freedom.
It reeks of envy. Equal people aren't free, and, free people aren't equal. There are those that work harder and smarter, there are those that just can't be too bothered so what happens when "equality' is forced. The only way is to cut down the tall poppies, to knock back the successful, to load the parasites onto the backs of the creators.
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Originally posted by WajomaYou don't understand at all what I'm trying to say.
More equality equals more force. The anathema of freedom.
It reeks of envy. Equal people aren't free, and, free people aren't equal. There are those that work harder and smarter, there are those that just can't be too bothered so what happens when "equality' is forced. The only way is to cut down the tall poppies, to knock back the successful, to load the parasites onto the backs of the creators.
Originally posted by wedgehead2I don't care what you call it just don't call your system of envy - freedom. You are unqualified to use the word freedom, please desist until you know what it means.
You represent the distorted view of freedom that freedom is all to do with the individual being able to do anything they want, rather than the view of freedom that giving people equal opportunities is giving them freedom. Your idea of freedom is deeply flawed, as by "giving everyone freedom to do what they want" simply leads to the wealthy being able to infringe on other people's freedoms to a equal start in life.
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Originally posted by Bad wolf...and what I said to wedgie goes for you as well. Call your system what you like - equality of outcome, equality of in going, equality of back to fronting, equality of upside downing - but lay off the word 'freedom'.
You don't understand at all what I'm trying to say.
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Originally posted by WajomaIn your idea of freedom, is it ok when someone infringes on someone elses freedom; or when someone is given preferencial treatment by the govt because you come from a richer area?
...and what I said to wedgie goes for you as well. Call your system what you like but lay off the word 'freedom'.
This is at the essence at what I'm trying to say. I don't want any of this.
Originally posted by Bad wolfThe only treatment I want from the guvamint is to be left alone.
In your idea of freedom, is it ok when someone infringes on someone elses freedom; or when someone is given preferencial treatment by the govt because you come from a richer area?
This is at the essence at what I'm trying to say. I don't want any of this.
"is it ok when someone infringes on someone elses freedom;"
Damn it, no wonder I'm so opposed to the public education system if it's turning out young people with your level of comprehension. Where have I said it's ok to infringe on anothers rights. Point it out and I'll send you $500.