15 Oct 08
Originally posted by MetBierOpIt's pretty simple, dude.
Seitse I am reading the posts. Please do the same, and do it a couple of times. Try to understand the intentions.
I do not deny the horrors, the holocaust or anything else.
And once again, but to make it entirely sure. I AM anti-nazi, Hitler, etc. Just like you are.
The horror and pain caused overrides and blurs anything "good" that can be said. Moreover, the only recipe for not repeating the mistakes of the past (a common sin among the flawed humans) is to keep in mind, always, the painfull consequences of those mistakes so the new generations learn and do not incur in the same stupidities.
Do you want to talk about nice things done by the nazi pigs? Go ahead, it's a free world... I may not be the right person to do that, though. Sorry.
15 Oct 08
Originally posted by SeitseOh come off it. You have to admit they wore lovely trousers.
It's pretty simple, dude.
The horror and pain caused overrides and blurs anything "good" that can be said. Moreover, the only recipe for not repeating the mistakes of the past (a common sin among the flawed humans) is to keep in mind, always, the painfull consequences of those mistakes so the new generations learn and do not incur in the same stupidities. ...[text shortened]... igs? Go ahead, it's a free world... I may not be the right person to do that, though. Sorry.
15 Oct 08
1 edit
Originally posted by PalynkaPalynka,
I said "Case closed" because only an idiot would continue to think that it would merit more discussion. Which evidently you are.
The function would still be present to those that are out of context. If you take a t-shirt saying "I love Hitler" with a very small print on the back of your sleeve saying "In this context 'love' means hate" what do you think would happen?
I do not like your communication style.
Lets review shall we:
- You state "Case closed".
- So I conlude that you are not open for discussion
- You use a " 🙄 " as a reply to my conclusion
- I explain why I stated that you seemed not open for discussion
- You state that only idiots would merit more discussion. (So in fact you were not open)
Now if you do not understand the reasons of others. Don't put that away with a simple. "They must be idiots". You will not come any further in your life with such an attitude.
I suggest we live by a few simple rules in a discussion.
1) Have an open view for the point of the other
2) Listen
3) Think before you answer
4) Do not start calling out names. We are not in kindergarden anymore, now are we?
agreed?
Now to answer your question.
In your example, with the I love Hitler. shirt.
With a hidden explanation on the back of your sleeve, no-one would know the hidden explanation. Most people probably would be offended
So my question would be, why hide the explanation?
Lets take an example of mine. Lets pick someone called Andy. Andy is a huge fan of the New York Giants. One day he meets a Giant player and salutes him with a raised hand and says "Go Giants" not hiding the true meaning of his greeting. Now what will happen. I'll give multiple options.
1) The giant player will greet back
2) The giant player is confused, starts a discussion and after that understands Andy.
3) The giant player will be offended (and probably will beat Andy to pulp)
The question that I find intreging is not which is the most common or most logical response. But why we choose to respond in such a manner.
We allways have a choice. Aggression and misunderstanding can mostly be avoided. But we choose not to because we are shortsided.
15 Oct 08
Originally posted by SeitseNo it is not my intention to have a discussion about how many nice things the nazis have done.
It's pretty simple, dude.
The horror and pain caused overrides and blurs anything "good" that can be said. Moreover, the only recipe for not repeating the mistakes of the past (a common sin among the flawed humans) is to keep in mind, always, the painfull consequences of those mistakes so the new generations learn and do not incur in the same stupidities. ...[text shortened]... igs? Go ahead, it's a free world... I may not be the right person to do that, though. Sorry.
I will gon on vacation soon, when I get back I'll try a diffirent approach to start a discussion about "mass-behavior". And hopefully will gain some deeper thoughts
I will not involve nazi's or Hitler in it, since it will tend to go off-topic rather quickly. Thanks for your reaction and time.
15 Oct 08
Originally posted by MetBierOpWhat part of "the function would still be present to those out of context" did you fail to understand?
Palynka,
I do not like your communication style.
Lets review shall we:
- You state "Case closed".
- So I conlude that you are not open for discussion
- You use a " 🙄 " as a reply to my conclusion
- I explain why I stated that you seemed not open for discussion
- You state that only idiots would merit more discussion. (So in fact you were ...[text shortened]... isunderstanding can mostly be avoided. But we choose not to because we are shortsided.
We live in a world of code, starting with our own language. A symbol has a clear and strongly defined meaning. Trying to strip it of its meaning leads to as much confusion as trying to strip the word "hate" of its meaning and using it as meaning something else.
Why bother to try to strip them of its meaning then? There are many other types of salutes that have no such symbolism attached to them.
15 Oct 08
Originally posted by MetBierOpYou have to forgive Seitse.
Palynka,
I do not like your communication style.
Lets review shall we:
- You state "Case closed".
- So I conlude that you are not open for discussion
- You use a " 🙄 " as a reply to my conclusion
- I explain why I stated that you seemed not open for discussion
- You state that only idiots would merit more discussion. (So in fact you were ...[text shortened]... isunderstanding can mostly be avoided. But we choose not to because we are shortsided.
He's a lovely chap, but slightly deluded on various issues.
