07 Jan 07
1 edit
Originally posted by jammerno he did not say "America = Free Speech" (this i would have ignored)
I missed it ... where did he say America is the ONLY Country with free speech?
All I saw was America=free speech, not America=ONLY Country with free speech
You assume a lot.
Maybe a refresher course in comprehension.
he said "Free Speech = American", which implies that ALL free speech is american or somehow related to america.
Maybe a refresher course in comprehension 😉.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by MCAPoint taken, my bad
no he did not say "America = Free Speech"
he said "Free Speech = American", which implies that ALL free speech is american or somehow related to america.
Maybe a refresher course in comprehension 😉.
I can see how you might read it that way.
I don't, but you might .. in particular if you're predisposed to hate anything American it makes sense .. other than that, it's a reach IMO.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by jammerno, i am not "predisposed to hate anything American" - I just read it the way it is written. Obvioulsy I am not the only one to have read it this way or Lundos would not have also pointed out this error.
Point taken, my bad
I can see how you might read it that way.
I don't, but you might .. in particular if you're predisposed to hate anything American it makes sense .. other than that, it's a reach IMO.
If this is not what he meant then why did he not explain himself when he had the opportunity? He has posted since I wrote my original post and could easily have explained himself better.
YOU assume a lot me thinx 😉
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by shavixmirI didn't connect the two- 😕
Really. This is quite absurd and severly shocking.
Just because people can be classified as lefties, doesn't mean they are anti-American.
Just because people are anti-US foreign policy at this moment in history, doesn't make them anti-American.
And being a socialist means, per definition, that you can't be Anti-American.
Get things in perspecti ...[text shortened]... ican doesn't mean you have to be pro-US foreign policy either...
T
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Thanks.
Just asking how many people conformed to Seitse's theory- I thought asking him to show evidence was a sensible point to make.
Obviously not.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by MCAProbably thinks you're just another of those predisposed to hate anything American .. like I did.
no, i am not "predisposed to hate anything American" -
.
If this is not what he meant then why did he not explain himself when he had the opportunity?
It quite easy to see .. it's written between the lines so to speak.
You say you don't hate anything American, but your posts say something else entirely.
Don't be shy .. admit it.
You'll find lots of support here.
07 Jan 07
2 edits
Originally posted by jammerlol, i am unsure of exactly how my posts show that i hate anything american. Does pointing out a few facts mean i hate all things american? Personally I dont think so. I am also happy to point out shortcommings in my home country, does this mean I hate the UK? No it does not. it means that I can see things with an open mind & an objective view and then make a decision based on the facts.
Probably thinks you're just another of those predisposed to hate anything American .. like I did.
It quite easy to see .. it's written between the lines so to speak.
You say you don't hate anything American, but your posts say something else entirely.
Don't be shy .. admit it.
You'll find lots of support here.
Once again you are making assumptions (as you have already admitted to)
Dont be so sensitive friend, not everyone outside of the US hates America.
07 Jan 07
MCA .. your origional post says ..
"how come the americans think they are the only country in the world which has free speech and that they somehow invented it? they are brought up to believe they have free speech but in fact they dont!!"
Which of course implies that ALL AMERICANS think that we are the ONLY country in the world with free speach and that ALL AMERICANS think that we invented it.
Reads like America-hate to me.
You lump ALL AMERICANS into group-think and then imply we're stupid to think we have free speach.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by MCAI could be mistaken, but I believe that the USA was the first nation to actually have Free Speech as part of its Constitution. I think the first mention of the Freedom of Speech was by Thomas More in the 1500's, but I don't think that it was actually part of English law until the EU.
damn, you beat me to it.
how come the americans think they are the only country in the world which has free speech and that they somehow invented it? 😕 they are brought up to believe they have free speech but in fact they dont!!
many other countries in the world have total free speech without the censorship and propaganda that goes on in america.
Just ...[text shortened]... [/i] example of what im talking about:
http://www.ericnuzum.com/banned/incidents/00s.html[/b]
I could be completely mistaken, it has been a while and I didn't really research my answer.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by jammermy apologies, I did mean many americans rather than all americans. I believe that there are probably plenty of Americans which undertsand that they do not have total free speech.
MCA .. your origional post says ..
"how come the americans think they are the only country in the world which has free speech and that they somehow invented it? they are brought up to believe they have free speech but in fact they dont!!"
Which of course implies that ALL AMERICANS think that we are the ONLY country in the world with free speach and tha ...[text shortened]... ump ALL AMERICANS into group-think and then imply we're stupid to think we have free speach.
The ones which dont understand this are stupid though!!
Free Speech cannot exist along side massive amounts of censorship and propaganda, which does occur more in america than most americans seem to realise.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by MCAMost of what you cited as censorship in the link of your earlier post were not state sanctioned censorship. They were lawsuits or proposed legislation. The vast majority of this type of legislation never makes it beyond the proposal state. Please show some actual US law that censors freedom of speech.
my apologies, I did mean many americans rather than all americans. I believe that there are probably plenty of Americans which undertsand that they do not have total free speech.
The ones which dont understand this are stupid though!!
Free Spe[b]ech cannot exist along side massive amounts of censorship and propaganda, which does occur more in america than most americans seem to realise.[/b]
We are surely an overly litigious society, but so many of those lawsuits end up defending free speech.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by CliffLandinit isn't actually US law that prohibits freedom of speech, it is propaganda in the form of your government; your freedom of speech is restricted by the same hand that claims to allow it; your freedom of speech is a contradiction within itself - you cannot attack that which you have been brought up to believe in and fight for. who really shot JFK, america still doesnt know, doesnt this bother you? your president is shot, you blame one man who we now know for fact it could never have been due to the positioning and location of the fired bullet and yet you still ask no questions about this event or seek a resolution. the events after 9/11 is another case where freedom of speech was denied; why did so many major US companies withdraw their shares in the airline industry shortly before 9/11... a little strange, when an american talks of this and starts to ask questions he is put down as being unpatriotic... no, you do not have freedom of speech, prove me wrong, go out of your house now and burn your flag, criticise the very core of your country, start to probe into your governments less publicised activities and you will see how much freedom of speech you really have; this is not because your law restricts it, it would never be that obvious
Most of what you cited as censorship in the link of your earlier post were not state sanctioned censorship. They were lawsuits or proposed legislation. The vast majority of this type of legislation never makes it beyond the proposal state. Please show some [b]actual US law that censors freedom of speech.
We are surely an overly litigious society, but so many of those lawsuits end up defending free speech.[/b]
07 Jan 07
1 edit
Originally posted by CliffLandinof course there would be no LAW censoring freedom of speech, this would go against the constitution and cause outrage across the land, even Bush aint THAT stupid.
Most of what you cited as censorship in the link of your earlier post were not state sanctioned censorship. They were lawsuits or proposed legislation. The vast majority of this type of legislation never makes it beyond the proposal state. Please show some [b]actual US law that censors freedom of speech.
We are surely an overly litigious society, but so many of those lawsuits end up defending free speech.[/b]
I am talking more of censorship and propaganda by the media and government which denies the US population the opportunity to make up its own mind and/or discuss the topics at hand.
for more info all you have to do is look up american censorship on google. you will find many links which discuss exactly what I am talking about.
here is a few to keep you going:
Joe Vialls Banned By Yahoo! because of the content of his site which put into question some aspects of the war in Iraq: http://www.vialls.com/subliminalsuggestion/viallsbanned.html
Irwin Schiff's book "The Federal Mafia" banned by a Federal Judge at the start of the iraq war, even though it has been in print for over 13 years:
http://www.newswithviews.com/NWVexclusive/exclusive1.htm
FBI shuts down 20 antiwar web sites: an unprecedented act of Internet censorship: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/sep2004/medi-s15.shtml
Leading Journalists Expose Major Cover-ups in Media: http://www.wanttoknow.info/mediacover-up
Many Americans know very little about the censorship in America partly because of this censorship and partly because they don't care to know.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by rooktakesqueenYou were going pretty well until you got to JFK - people have been asking and digging and questioning who shot JFK since it happened. Who killed Diana? I know the paparazzi, right?
it isn't actually US law that prohibits freedom of speech, it is propaganda in the form of your government; your freedom of speech is restricted by the same hand that claims to allow it; your freedom of speech is a contradiction within itself - you cannot attack that which you have been brought up to believe in and fight for. who really shot JFK, amer ...[text shortened]... eech you really have; this is not because your law restricts it, it would never be that obvious
You aren't referring to Freedom of Speech - you are referring to conspiracies within the government. If I prevented from saying "JFK was shot by someone on the grassy knoll" or was prosecuted for saying it, then that would be abuse of Right to Free Speech.
We do believe that you must have actual proof before you can accuse one of a crime. I can no longer claim my neighbor is a witch and then have her in stocks.
You are speaking of Freedom of Information, not Freedom of Speech. There is a difference.
And by the way, we can burn the flag at our pleasure.
Flag Desecration Amendment (1990, 1995, 1997, 1999-2000, 2001, 2003, 2005-2006): Congress has made seven attempts to overrule the U.S. Supreme Court by passing a constitutional amendment making an exception to the First Amendment in order to allow the government to ban flag desecration. In 1990, when the amendment was first brought up, it failed to achieve the necessary two-thirds majority in the House. After the Republican congressional takeover of 1994, it has consistently passed the House but failed in the Senate.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by MCAhttp://www.amazon.com/Federal-Mafia-Illegally-Unlawfully-Collects/dp/0930374096
of course there would be no LAW censoring freedom of speech, this would go against the constitution and cause outrage across the land, even Bush aint THAT stupid.
I am talking more of censorship and propaganda by the media [b]and government which denies the US population the opportunity to make up its own mind and/or discuss the topics at hand.
for mor ...[text shortened]... America partly because of this censorship and partly because they don't care to know.[/b]