06 Sep 22
@shallow-blue saidCONCLUSIONS from Brookings.edu
No.
All we need is: how rich were the very rich before; how rich are they now? How poor are the very poor before; how poor are they now?
This analysis presents several conclusions:
Broad economic indicators like GDP, disposable income, and median household income are important measures of economic welfare, but inherently are incomplete. Jones and Klenow have provided a concrete example of how to construct a more comprehensive measure of economic well-being from existing data.
According to the Jones-Klenow measure, as of the early to mid-2000s, the United States had the highest economic welfare of any large country. However, several Western European countries, including the United Kingdom and France, came close to the United States when differences in leisure, life expectancy, and inequality are taken into account. In terms of welfare, emerging market and developing economies were further behind the United States than per capita income or consumption figures indicate, largely because of greater inequality and shorter life expectancies in those countries.
Longer-term trends in economic welfare in the United States are mostly positive. According to our extension of the Jones-Klenow analysis, U.S. economic welfare has increased at about 2.3 percent per year since 1995, for a cumulative gain in two decades of 60 percent. Gains in income and consumption per capita and in life expectancy are the major reasons for improved welfare. Increased inequality of consumption has subtracted about 0.2 percentage points a year from the welfare measure since 1995.
Since 2007, economic welfare in the United States has continued to improve, according to our calculation. However, the pace of improvement has slowed markedly relative to the precrisis era, reflecting slower economic growth, some slowdown in the rate of improvement in life expectancy, and continuing increases in inequality.
This measure confirms that life in America is good, compared to other countries and to the country’s own past, and is still improving. But there has been a significant slowdown in the pace of improvement that requires attention from policymakers.
Methodologically, the lesson from Jones and Klenow’s research is that economic welfare is multidimensional. Their approach is flexible enough that in principle other important quality-of-life changes could be incorporated—for example, the 63 percent decrease in total emissions of six of the most common pollutants from 1980 to 2014 and the decline in crime rates. We need better measures of how well Americans are being served by the economy, and frameworks such as this one are a promising direction.
I hope all this leads you to good vibes about America, if you have been concerned that things aren't so good. They are good.
OK I have answered your questions, will you answer mine?
06 Sep 22
@averagejoe1 saidThis is the simplest of questions that Shallow, who is playing being a loser today, is shying away from. So much for his nothing. He is the worst debater here, maybe below the jester. Pitiful. Why are we here, Shallow? Don't you want to know why I say things like some people work more than others, or, gimme it, or free stuff? Why, what is AvJoe talking about? I don't understand joe's questions, he is just so craaaaaaazy. loser.
Rephrased, if spending public money in the name of job creation is a massive red flag , what is spending public money in the name of paying off personal debts?
So, someone be a man. There are not many here.
07 Sep 22
@averagejoe1 saidYour taxes bought a yacht for a military contractor instead of yourself, and you still support Republicans.
Methinks socialist countries do not produce real men. Prove me wrong, Shallow.
Would you believe me that I NEVER think about government in my life. I pay taxes, and live my life on my income. You cannot say that. Tell us why.
07 Sep 22
@averagejoe1 saidI read the whole thing but can't tell if any of it is relevant. Can you highlight why you posted this?
CONCLUSIONS from Brookings.edu
This analysis presents several conclusions:
Broad economic indicators like GDP, disposable income, and median household income are important measures of economic welfare, but inherently are incomplete. Jones and Klenow have provided a concrete example of how to construct a more comprehensive measure of economic well-being from existing ...[text shortened]... hings aren't so good. They are good.
OK I have answered your questions, will you answer mine?
@averagejoe1 saidYikes, we're going back to 9th grade economics here. And also irrelevant to the thread but....
Rephrased, if spending public money in the name of job creation is a massive red flag , what is spending public money in the name of paying off personal debts?
Full disclosure: I had student debt and it took me 20 years to pay it off in $100 increments. Painful. Having that debt delayed marriage and home ownership.
Despite my sacrifice and that I can't capitalize on the recent developments, I don't resent in any way the loan forgiveness plan. It will put more people in direct interaction with our economy at an earlier stage. It's a good idea.
Billions in tax forgiveness for billionaires is far more problematic.
07 Sep 22
@wildgrass saidYou fellers use the 'wealth of others' as an excuse for shortcomings and problems in the country, they have nothing to do with you, and any tax breaks, which I myself take, are all part of the law which was made by Dems and repubs over the years.
Yikes, we're going back to 9th grade economics here. And also irrelevant to the thread but....
Full disclosure: I had student debt and it took me 20 years to pay it off in $100 increments. Painful. Having that debt delayed marriage and home ownership.
Despite my sacrifice and that I can't capitalize on the recent developments, I don't resent in any way the loan forgiv ...[text shortened]... er stage. It's a good idea.
Billions in tax forgiveness for billionaires is far more problematic.
YOU may not mind a graduate getting his loan paid off, but a guy who just wrote his last $100 payment to his loan does mind it. I cannot believe you want the govt to get involved, support, your life decisions of marriage and a home. I just cannot believer it. You are a true died-in-the-wool socialist. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Shav is all into that too. Free house. Is everyone of you people a socialist? Is Marauder the pied piper, I am sure he is on another level.
@wildgrass saidTo apprise you all of the improved life of Americans over the years. Wan't that your question ? There are hundreds of such links if that one does't suit.
I read the whole thing but can't tell if any of it is relevant. Can you highlight why you posted this?
@averagejoe1 saidIf America is so wonderful, why are so many Americans angry? And why do Danes rank higher on gross national happiness than Americans?
CONCLUSIONS from Brookings.edu
This analysis presents several conclusions:
Broad economic indicators like GDP, disposable income, and median household income are important measures of economic welfare, but inherently are incomplete. Jones and Klenow have provided a concrete example of how to construct a more comprehensive measure of economic well-being from existing ...[text shortened]... hings aren't so good. They are good.
OK I have answered your questions, will you answer mine?
@moonbus saidNational happiness. Do take into account the thousand different cultures in the US, and that should make you think. You don't throw all the farm animals into one cage. Geez.
If America is so wonderful, why are so many Americans angry? And why do Danes rank higher on gross national happiness than Americans?
Anyway, apply that to social inequality, and Danes are definitely running smoothly. Hell; we have many killings every night. Killings. So, yeah, social equality is Denmark. Everyone is the same.
I linked here a treatise on the comparisons, so take away the social thing of white people blowing bubbles in a park, and look again.
The USA is far more productive, back 60 years.
Denmark net wealth is $118,000. Salaries $29,000. USA😳45,000 salaries, $632,000 net wealth. It will probably get closer together as our border, et al, become shambles, from Texas to Chicago. But the upside of the wealth and productivity is that US citizens have more personal freedom. There cannot be personal freedom and government dependency at the same time. For 250 years freedom has been a big deal, but liberals here have a problem with freedom, and it is definitely being eroded. So, your post is not all wrong. This article says that Danish-Americans living standards in the USA are 55% higher than that of their counterparts in the USA.
I LOVE LOVE the comment that "The Key to the Nordic Model is cultural'. Duh average Joe has been preaching culture to you fellers for years. That of the USA is being ruined by the largess of liberals in every corner....emotional, physical, religiously, mental, economically, the works. You are gonna win, you know. We cannot save it. It could be culture alone, indeed, that does it all in. I am deciding whether or not to be a socialist, or to be one living under socialism and blow bubbles in the park. I will be the former, solely so that I can fake being free.
https://www.aier.org/article/us-vs-denmark-which-country-wins/
08 Sep 22
@AverageJoe1
Like I said, you CLEARLY HATE giving money to ANYONE no matter what the circumstances.
Fortunately it is not your decision so suck it up and live with it.
Start ANOTHER conspiracy theory, you will find that most rewarding.
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08 Sep 22
@averagejoe1 saidOh, please.
CONCLUSIONS from Brookings.edu
OK I have answered your questions, will you answer mine?
Obviously no - no, you haven't - and no, I won't "answer" a straw man.
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08 Sep 22
@averagejoe1 saidI'll say this for you, Joe: you do ape Dementia Donald very well indeed. "Pitiful. I'm the biggest. Most bigly." Yes, Joe. You really are the most Trumply on these forums.
Pitiful. Why are we here, Shallow?
09 Sep 22
@shallow-blue saidDid you see Wildgrass, 8 clicks back, blaming some entity for delaying his marriage and his buying a house? Who is he blaming? The kind loan officer who loaned him the money, lest he get no college? The government? He holds them LIABLE to him!?!?!? The worst of all liberals. Shallow, I guess I have to write your name below the jester ( a short little page) in my journal.
I'll say this for you, Joe: you do ape Dementia Donald very well indeed. "Pitiful. I'm the biggest. Most bigly." Yes, Joe. You really are the most Trumply on these forums.