02 Sep 12
Originally posted by normbenignAn opinion if based on the facts shouldn't be disregarded just because a foreigner has the opinion. If you wish to disagree with the opinion and present facts that should lead to a different one, that's what a forum board is for. But simply saying we should ignore any foreigner's opinion about issues in the US because they are a foreigner is fallacious, simple minded and inappropriate.
Sure it is, but frankly I don't pretend to know much about Indonesian politics. You seem to have deep rooted beliefs about what Americans ought to do, how they should vote, etc., when these things aren't a factor in your life. If you are wrong, there is no consequence to you.
Certainly you have a right to express your opinion, and I have a right to point out its lack of relevance.
02 Sep 12
Originally posted by no1marauderBoth of us disagree on history, written history. No I wasn't in Ireland in the 1840s, and you weren't either, unless you are the oldest living person on the planet.
You pretend to be an authority on what happened in Ireland in the 1840's. Do you have "first hand knowledge" of that?
And no, I was not and am not an authority on that subject, however I can read, and found conflicts in the very documents that you cited.
This is a huge difference between me telling someone how to run their country, or how to vote in their elections.
02 Sep 12
Originally posted by no1marauderIf normbenign had any sense of forum history at all, he would know that there have been scarcely any regular reputable posters who have used the old 'you're not an American, so what do you know?' chestnut, left wing or right wing, except for a few absolute drongos from time to time. I can't remember a European poster ever using the 'you're not a European, so what do you know' "argument".
But simply saying we should ignore any foreigner's opinion about issues in the US because they are a foreigner is fallacious, simple minded and inappropriate.
02 Sep 12
Originally posted by normbenignI don't see any more difference from someone in a foreign country giving their opinions regarding American politics in Debates from the same foreigner giving their opinion I should play the Semi-Slav in Chess. In either case, I am free to evaluate their suggestions based on the facts and either accept or reject them.
Both of us disagree on history, written history. No I wasn't in Ireland in the 1840s, and you weren't either, unless you are the oldest living person on the planet.
And no, I was not and am not an authority on that subject, however I can read, and found conflicts in the very documents that you cited.
This is a huge difference between me telling someone how to run their country, or how to vote in their elections.
02 Sep 12
Originally posted by normbenignYou have no direct impact on Indonesia and I have no direct impact on the U.S. This is in internet Debate Forum, normbenign. Tell us, what is it you want and don't want to happen in this arena?
The consequences are all here. I don't tell you how to vote, or the solution to Indonesian problems.
02 Sep 12
Originally posted by no1marauder" because they are a foreigner is fallacious, simple minded and inappropriate"
An opinion if based on the facts shouldn't be disregarded just because a foreigner has the opinion. If you wish to disagree with the opinion and present facts that should lead to a different one, that's what a forum board is for. But simply saying we should ignore any foreigner's opinion about issues in the US because they are a foreigner is fallacious, simple minded and inappropriate.
It is fair to point out a lack of first hand knowledge, and any personal involvement, "skin in the game". It is not "because they are a foreigner", but because they display ignorance, and abuse of people who do live here, and face the actual consequences of political mismanagement.
02 Sep 12
Originally posted by FMFYou didn't see the thread about Northern Ireland after the killing of the two British soldiers a few years ago. Plenty of UK posters told me just that.
If normbenign had any sense of forum history at all, he would know that there have been scarcely any regular reputable posters who have used the old 'you're not an American, so what do you know?' chestnut, left wing or right wing, except for a few absolute drongos from time to time. I can't remember a European poster ever using the 'you're not a European, so what do you know' "argument".
02 Sep 12
Originally posted by FMFIt is fine as it is. You can continue to offer uninformed critiques of the US and its politics, and I can continue to point out you don't know squat about the US, and that people who actually live and vote here may carry more weight in the debate.
You have no direct impact on Indonesia and I have no direct impact on the U.S. This is in internet Debate Forum, normbenign. Tell us, what is it you want and don't want to happen in this arena?
02 Sep 12
Originally posted by normbenignNo, it isn't "fair"; it is completely irrelevant. Either they make good points or they do not; where they happen to live has no bearing on it.
" because they are a foreigner is fallacious, simple minded and inappropriate"
It is fair to point out a lack of first hand knowledge, and any personal involvement, "skin in the game". It is not "because they are a foreigner", but because they display ignorance, and abuse of people who do live here, and face the actual consequences of political mismanagement.
02 Sep 12
Originally posted by normbenignSo what are going on about then?
It is fine as it is. You can continue to offer uninformed critiques of the US and its politics, and I can continue to point out you don't know squat about the US, and that people who actually live and vote here may carry more weight in the debate.