04 Sep 23
@wajoma saidMakes me wish Duchess64 was back in the forums.
I found it interesting speaking with the Chinese couple who run a local cafe, when I told her about 'tank man', an event she claimed no knowledge of, she refused to search it on her ph in case it some how got back to the authorities what she had been viewing.
I wonder if other expat Chinese in other countries are as wary of being spied on.
But check this out:
Tibet-born Baimadajie Angwang is accused of reporting on the activities of Chinese citizens in the New York area and assessing potential sources of intelligence in the Tibetan community.
The naturalised US citizen, who worked for the police department's community affairs unit, was arrested on Monday.
If convicted, he faces a maximum sentence of 55 years in prison.
According to prosecutors, Angwang is also employed by the US Army Reserve, working as a civil affairs specialist.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54244018
Their fears are not entirely misplaced.
04 Sep 23
@no1marauder said... And what makes this absolutely silly is the idea that these guys actually thought they were going to overthrow the government by force.
If you had bothered to read the statute (which you clearly did not), you'd know it doesn't cover "peaceful protests" or "private conversations that indicated your protests might wish to change society dynamically" but instead:
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put d ...[text shortened]... r imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384
As far as weapons went, one of them had pepper spray, and he actually actively denies using it on a cop...
Hence this is why it is a kangaroo court: there is nothing definitive which says these men sought to overhtrow the government using force, and these non-mentally impaired men did not show up with guns or bombs or any kind of weapon that would outmatch Capitol security...
One of them brought a can of pepper spray to a gun fight, and the other was apparently unarmed...
From the alleged plot to the charges, none of this makes sense, and as someone who has claimed to love truth and human rights, it is bizarre to see you backing the bozo prosecutors who brought these bogus charges.
You are morally debarred in my book, brotha.
04 Sep 23
@no1marauder saidThis stuff is fabulous:
You must have forgot that I addressed these points fully in May:
"What the insurrectionists were trying to do is to stop the certification of the Presidential election. If they had succeeded in breaking into the House and Senate chambers when the Representatives and Senators were still there they could have effectively held the members hostage until they accepted vario ...[text shortened]... ement it."
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/seditious-conspiracy-conviction.196939/page-3
"What the insurrectionists were trying to do is to stop the certification of the Presidential election. If they had succeeded in breaking into the House and Senate chambers when the Representatives and Senators were still there they could have effectively held the members hostage until they accepted various slates of "delegates" from certain States that would vote for Trump rather than for the actual winner of their States Joe Biden. Is that far fetched? Given that even after the riot:
"However, 121 House Republicans, or 57 percent of the House Republican caucus, chose to vote in favor of the baseless belief that Arizona’s Electoral College votes were somehow compromised. And 138 House Republicans voted in favor of challenging Pennsylvania’s results."
https://www.vox.com/2021/1/7/22218225/house-republicans-senate-electoral-college-votes-storm-capitol-election-stop-the-steal-trump-biden
Bro is outlining this scenario where the mob would hold Congress hostage, unarmed, and we would have to acquiesce to all of their demands and make vital changes to the government...
.... Of course, we couldn't just lie to them, say we accepted their changes, and once the hostages were released immediately use our military power to revert everything...
We would be forever outwitted & outplayed by an unarmed mob who had no plans of overthrowing the government.
I guess the real fear, though, is in the second part: actual elected members of Congress apparently had interest in thoroughly checking the ballots and the results of the election, questioning the transparency of the system and its integrity after an unprecedented amount of ballots were cast in abstentia...
Absolutely wild content from a self-proclaimed democratic person - a combination of zany dreams that wouldn't be a good plot in a fiction story and the demonization of democratic checks & balances.
Just funny.
It shows how sometimes the more erudite of the leftoids can even believe crazier things than those who are less verbal. They almost have to: it's their job to articulate the insanity.
04 Sep 23
@philokalia saidRight wingers must have some type of congenital defects that make them utterly unable to understand or even bother to read other people's posts.
This stuff is fabulous:
[quote]"What the insurrectionists were trying to do is to stop the certification of the Presidential election. If they had succeeded in breaking into the House and Senate chambers when the Representatives and Senators were still there they could have effectively held the members hostage until they accepted various slates of "delegates" from certa ...[text shortened]... ings than those who are less verbal. They almost have to: it's their job to articulate the insanity.
Like Wajoma, you're, presumably deliberately, ignoring that the President of the United States stood to personally gain IF the mob had been able to force the Congress to certify that Trump, not Biden, won the election. It is completely unclear legally what the result would then be; certainly there would be a Constitutional crisis. And there's considerable doubt that Trump, who told them to do something to "stop the steal" or "they wouldn't have a country anymore" wouldn't have tried to hold on to power.
Those are facts that perhaps you are too much of a brainwashed idiot to deal with.
@philokalia saidExcept there is abundant evidence presented at trial that that is exactly what they expected to do.
... And what makes this absolutely silly is the idea that these guys actually thought they were going to overthrow the government by force.
As far as weapons went, one of them had pepper spray, and he actually actively denies using it on a cop...
Hence this is why it is a kangaroo court: there is nothing definitive which says these men sought to overhtrow the ...[text shortened]... e bozo prosecutors who brought these bogus charges.
You are morally debarred in my book, brotha.
Paragraph 41 of the indictment has Tarrio receiving a document with a plan to "occupy a few "crucial buildings" in Washington, DC including House and Senate office buildings".
https://www.justice.gov/media/1225801/dl?inline
04 Sep 23
@no1marauder said"The Facts!!!"
Right wingers must have some type of congenital defects that make them utterly unable to understand or even bother to read other people's posts.
Like Wajoma, you're, presumably deliberately, ignoring that the President of the United States stood to personally gain IF the mob had been able to force the Congress to certify that Trump, not Biden, won the election. It is c ...[text shortened]... d on to power.
Those are facts that perhaps you are too much of a brainwashed idiot to deal with.
You refer to your dreamed up scenarios as if they were facts on the ground, and that a mob of people unprepared to deal with armed security guards with guns, nearly completely unarmed themselves, who retreated quickly after the only fatality of the day caused by violence was incurred by them...
... Was on the cusp of successfully throwing a coup.
It's just honestly bizarre, beyond words, to think that a coup in the most armed country in the world "coulda coulda COULDA!" happened due to an unarmed mob temporarily occupying a building...
Now, dare I even ask what substantiated the clown charges of seditious conspiracy against Biggs?
If you have a SINGLE ounce of integrity as a principled liberal that believes in democracy and transparency, you would be able to tell us why you support sending a man to jail for 17 years because he has committed "seditious conspiracy" to overthrow the government...
.... by showing up, his buddy with a can of pepper spray...
Absolutely bizarre - you call yoruself a believer in democracy and high principles but you are just like the COmmunist party member of China or Vietnam showing up to the assembly in his BMW, talking about democracy and Marxism and how he fulfills all those ideals in his Brooks Brothers suit.
If you can't substantiate your claims and just going to keep spinning these wheels, save yourself the embarrassment and be silent.
Go back to your chess game.
05 Sep 23
@no1marauder said... They wanted to completely disrupt a process...
Paragraph 102:
"After re-entering the Capitol by force, Biggs and other Proud Boys he had entered with traveled to the Senate chamber where the Certification of the Electoral College vote would have been occurring, had it not been suspended due to the ongoing attack."
And you have showed us that they thought that they could disrupt the process...
Is that the armed overthrow of the government? LOL.
"The protesters wanted to maximize disruption...!"
The protesters said "what could they do if there was a million of us disrupting their process..?!"
And that amounts to a seditious conspiracy - to go into key parts of the building in protest, unarmed.
GTFO.
You are grabbing guys who planned an unarmed protest by the D and sending them to jail for 17 years because you hate their politics...
... Meanwhile, at the CHAZ in Seattle... LOL.
You do not believe in democracy - your brain is so compartmentalized that you do not even see the hypocrisy here....
I wonder if this feebleness made you a better lawyer, or a worst one..?
@no1marauder saidBiggs deserves another purple heart. You know that they offered him all kinds of deals to fold, to bend over, to say this, to say that to implicate whoever, 17 years and he held on to what he believes is right i.e. the truth.
Paragraph 102:
"After re-entering the Capitol by force, Biggs and other Proud Boys he had entered with traveled to the Senate chamber where the Certification of the Electoral College vote would have been occurring, had it not been suspended due to the ongoing attack."
05 Sep 23
@philokalia saidIdiot, that so-called "unarmed" mob was able to overpower hundreds of police officers, injuring dozens in the process. And they actually took over the Capitol building for hours.
"The Facts!!!"
You refer to your dreamed up scenarios as if they were facts on the ground, and that a mob of people unprepared to deal with armed security guards with guns, nearly completely unarmed themselves, who retreated quickly after the only fatality of the day caused by violence was incurred by them...
[i]... Was on the cusp of successfully thr ...[text shortened]... pinning these wheels, save yourself the embarrassment and be silent.
Go back to your chess game.
You are living in a fantasy world to deny these facts the whole world saw. Biggs and the rest were clearly guilty of the charge of seditious conspiracy (read the goddamm law) as the jury found.
@wajoma saidBiggs was a deluded fool willing to overthrow the will of 155 million US voters because a transparent con man told him to.
Biggs deserves another purple heart. You know that they offered him all kinds of deals to fold, to bend over, to say this, to say that to implicate whoever, 17 years and he held on to what he believes is right i.e. the truth.
He got what he deserved.
05 Sep 23
@no1marauder saidOverpowered police! There's video footage of police inviting peaceful protesters in who stay behind the red velvet ropes. There's footage of police asking based MAGA shaman to be respectful while talking his photo ops in the rotunda and congressional hall.
Idiot, that so-called "unarmed" mob was able to overpower hundreds of police officers, injuring dozens in the process. And they actually took over the Capitol building for hours.
You are living in a fantasy world to deny these facts the whole world saw. Biggs and the rest were clearly guilty of the charge of seditious conspiracy (read the goddamm law) as the jury found.
Yes, there were fights in which some police got hit - and the police gave their own violence to the protesters... Culminating with Babbit being shot to death by a fruckwit security guard previously cited for his moronic inability to keep his weapon on his person (wonder if it was the same pistol that killed Babbit).
You can cherrypick the story and make it sound like some coordinated attempt of a mob, but you are completley impotent in making your case sound remotely persuasive here...
Which is why you appear to be the hypocritic old foolish man who was d a disgrace to the bar through his inability to serve the LAW of the land, and the US constituion
But judging by the state of courts today, you must be quite happy: it vindicates your limpness and ineptitude to understand constitutionality and American law.
Tell me: do you lying skumklerks interpret all law with such hole-in-the-brain reasoning?
05 Sep 23
@no1marauder said... Like anyone thought they were gonna overthrow the government that night, Dumbledwarf.
Biggs was a deluded fool willing to overthrow the will of 155 million US voters because a transparent con man told him to.
He got what he deserved.
You do not even understand reality, though, and potentiality - so of course how could you begin to understand your opponnents motives?
@philokalia saidOnly the most deluded of imbeciles can watch the footage of what occurred on January 6th, 2021 and say the transparent lies you are parroting, never mind expect any non-fool to take them seriously.
Overpowered police! There's video footage of police inviting peaceful protesters in who stay behind the red velvet ropes. There's footage of police asking based MAGA shaman to be respectful while talking his photo ops in the rotunda and congressional hall.
Yes, there were fights in which some police got hit - and the police gave their own violence to the protest ...[text shortened]... n law.
Tell me: do you lying skumklerks interpret all law with such hole-in-the-brain reasoning?
The mob attacked police and forcibly stormed the Capitol in an attempt to stop the certification of the EC vote or even force Congress to certify the loser as the winner. And there is plenty of evidence from their own mouths and writings that the Proud Boy defendants did exactly what the statute forbids i.e. attempt by force to overthrow the government by disrupting the Constitutionally mandated certification.
All your smoke and lies doesn't change those facts and didn't fool the jury.