02 Sep 07
Originally posted by slimjimFrance and Germany did not 'leave you hanging' after 9/11, both of these countries have forces in Afghanistan were they are fighting alongside americans against the taliban and al-quada.
I don't drink, got a lot of friends, but I'm a little disgusted with Europe lately. Maybe it's because I spent many a night on the Czech/German border during my two tours of duty there when I was in the Army. You know thinking how we were supposed allies and such and then the Germans and French (no suprise there) left us hanging after 9-11. Also I think my Italian Mother would also be disgusted in the way Europe has changed.
03 Sep 07
Originally posted by slimjimWell done, but the point being made is that you are not "l'eau d'Amerique". America is a lot of things, you being a representative sample of certain groups, but not representative of the entire nation. That's a bit of a tall claim to be making. Yet you take it as a slur on your country when someone says something about you. I think if you reread what was being posted, that was the intention.
That's because I am an American. Born and bred and bled for my country.
03 Sep 07
Originally posted by MacSwainFrom my impression it seems as though most around the world, not just Europeans, view Americans as spoiled and stupid. I think it has to do with the US having the greater part of wealth in the world as well as being more preoccupied with thier own little worlds than with the world at large. Case in point is the popularity of soccer. Around the world soccer rules, however, in the US you are hard pressed to find anyone who has ever attended a soccer game or even know the rules. Americans created their own sports and could care less about what the rest of the world does. In fact, this attitude is also reflected in the current involvement in Iraq. Not much support was given around the world for going in but the US did it anyway.
Why do liberal Europeans have a caustic dislike (to hatred?) of USA?
* USA is equally split liberal & conservative. Does this indicate the dislike is not political?
* Has this dislike come to the fore since the fall of USSR?
* Do recent elections in Germany & France indicate an abrupt change in attitude from previous decades?
* Has this EU pol ...[text shortened]... red due to Putins’ revitalization of Russia’s military re-build?
(have fun everyone...enjoy!)
In large part I think the disdain for Americans is for their capitalistic independent spirit that is foreign to most other countries around the world. After all, America is the mecca for such attributes as everyone else has seems to have a socialistic mind set. Granted, this is slowly changing as countries like France appear to becoming more capitalistic and America seems to becoming more socialistic as they are weighted down increasingly with beauracracy and a political system that is swining ever closer to the left.
03 Sep 07
Originally posted by whodeyIt's nice to believe any anti-US feeling is because of it's "capitalistic independent spirit" but I think most people just think that's just a bit sad really. In any case, I don't think you could accuse France of not having an independent spirit.
From my impression it seems as though most around the world, not just Europeans, view Americans as spoiled and stupid. I think it has to do with the US having the greater part of wealth in the world as well as being more preoccupied with thier own little worlds than with the world at large. Case in point is the popularity of soccer. Around the world soccer ...[text shortened]... wn increasingly with beauracracy and a political system that is swining ever closer to the left.
No, the problem is much simpler than that. It's the use of phrases like "Americans created their own sport and could care less about.." which is not only wrong but also means exactly the opposite of what the author of the phrase means. You don't actually have to think much about this phrase when you're saying it to realise that it is not what you meant.
In other words, sloppy, careless bastardisation of culture and language combined with the economic muscle to make those changes the new norm breeds resentment I think.
03 Sep 07
Originally posted by whodeyFOOTBALL.
From my impression it seems as though most around the world, not just Europeans, view Americans as spoiled and stupid. I think it has to do with the US having the greater part of wealth in the world as well as being more preoccupied with thier own little worlds than with the world at large. Case in point is the popularity of soccer. Around the world soccer ...[text shortened]... wn increasingly with beauracracy and a political system that is swining ever closer to the left.
ITS FOOTBALL
OK ?
FOOTBALL
FOOTBALL
FOOTBALL
FOOTBALL
FOOTBALL
FOOTBALL.
😀
What do you think of Americans calling an event the 'World Series' in which the only participating country is the USA ?
03 Sep 07
Originally posted by WheelyIt seems to me that dislike of the Americans on the part of Europeans stems mainly from two different sources.
It's nice to believe any anti-US feeling is because of it's "capitalistic independent spirit" but I think most people just think that's just a bit sad really. In any case, I don't think you could accuse France of not having an independent spirit.
No, the problem is much simpler than that. It's the use of phrases like "Americans created their own sport an ...[text shortened]... ith the economic muscle to make those changes the new norm breeds resentment I think.
On the one hand some consider most Americans to be brash and somewhat uncouth, lacking in aethetic sensitivty, whilst others are
just plainly envious of their wealth and power as a nation.
Among the latter the liberal/socialist minions feel particularly agrieved since American capitalism is so obviously more successful than socialist bureaucracy.
03 Sep 07
1 edit
Originally posted by CartanI don't think I've met any Europeans who are envious of US wealth but this may be because, in general, the US falls below many European countries when comparing things like standard of living, poverty and development.
It seems to me that dislike of the Americans on the part of Europeans stems mainly from two different sources.
On the one hand some consider most Americans to be brash and somewhat uncouth, lacking in aethetic sensitivty, whilst others are
just plainly envious of their wealth and power as a nation.
Among the latter the liberal/socialist minions feel p ...[text shortened]... agrieved since American capitalism is so obviously more successful than socialist bureaucracy.
I think most Europeans like Americans.
03 Sep 07
1 edit
Originally posted by WheelyYes, I agree with your last point and should have said so.
I don't think I've met any Europeans who are envious of US wealth but this may be because, in general, the US falls below many European countries when comparing things like standard of living, poverty and development.
I think most Europeans like Americans.
I was concerned only to delineate the main sources of such 'anti-Americanism' as does exist in Europe.
03 Sep 07
Originally posted by MacSwainBasically because the minority of very nice people in the US are out-weighed by an overwhelming bunch of gun-toting, right wing, christian fundamentalist, moronic imperialists.
Why do liberal Europeans have a caustic dislike (to hatred?) of USA?
* USA is equally split liberal & conservative. Does this indicate the dislike is not political?
* Has this dislike come to the fore since the fall of USSR?
* Do recent elections in Germany & France indicate an abrupt change in attitude from previous decades?
* Has this EU pol ...[text shortened]... red due to Putins’ revitalization of Russia’s military re-build?
(have fun everyone...enjoy!)
03 Sep 07
Originally posted by WheelyI think that's the main point to take home, while there is of course an undeniable loud minority who are just plainly "anti"-US, the majority are merely critical of it's policies in many areas.
I don't think I've met any Europeans who are envious of US wealth but this may be because, in general, the US falls below many European countries when comparing things like standard of living, poverty and development.
I think most Europeans like Americans.
Due to the noise produced by the hippies (of which there aren't that many, whatever one may think), those who are merely critical are bunched in with the loons.
Just as I'm sure many of the Americans on the site are aware happens with their neo-conservative loons and the general population.
So the thread basically starts off from an assumption and asks the question why, when it should really just ask "is this true" before it starts asking why...
04 Sep 07
Originally posted by Bartshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_combat_operations_in_Afghanistan_in_2006#Criticism_of_some_NATO_allies
France and Germany did not 'leave you hanging' after 9/11, both of these countries have forces in Afghanistan were they are fighting alongside americans against the taliban and al-quada.
"Criticism of some NATO allies
Despite the deployment of British and Dutch forces (and smaller forces from smaller European countries such as Denmark and Estonia), the Canadians have shown frustration at the lack of support from other major European NATO countries. [18] Britain’s defence secretary Des Browne shared criticism of those NATO allies for not sharing the burden. [19]
Germany has ISAF ground troops in Afghanistan, but in the more secure north and resisted calls to help NATO forces in the south. France also has troops in the more secure north, and has deployed special forces and made available close air support aircraft for operations in the south, but also did not deploy significant ground troops to the south.
"
04 Sep 07
Originally posted by CartanI think you raise some interesting points here. America is the New World compared to Europe. As a result, Europeans have a richer history to draw from in which culture is more abundant. Conversly, Americans are seen as more brash and uncouth as you say as a result. Just you wait, give them another 500 years and they will become the cultural snobs that Europe is today!!
It seems to me that dislike of the Americans on the part of Europeans stems mainly from two different sources.
On the one hand some consider most Americans to be brash and somewhat uncouth, lacking in aethetic sensitivty, whilst others are
just plainly envious of their wealth and power as a nation.
Among the latter the liberal/socialist minions feel p ...[text shortened]... agrieved since American capitalism is so obviously more successful than socialist bureaucracy.
It reminds me of a trip I made to Paris. It is arguable the most cultured city on the face of the earth. There is such a rich history there when it comes to art and food etc, that it is mind blowing. However, I was treated like @#@$@!!! There was such an air of snobery in the air you could cut it with a knife. Give me an uncultured city that is hospitable any day over a snobish city that has an infinite amount of culture.
04 Sep 07
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyHow would a French person, speaking only in French, would be treated in the US?
I think you raise some interesting points here. America is the New World compared to Europe. As a result, Europeans have a richer history to draw from in which culture is more abundant. Conversly, Americans are seen as more brash and uncouth as you say as a result. Just you wait, give them another 500 years and they will become the cultural snobs that Eur ...[text shortened]... ured city that is hospitable any day over a snobish city that has an infinite amount of culture.