05 Sep 07
Originally posted by WheelyThat is the typical elitist sheep response.
Perhaps one day I'll go back and realise that Paris is indeed the best city in the world and condemn anybody who doesn't understand that as just trying to be trendy and a hypocrite.
1. Who said that Paris was the best city in the world?
2. You do realize the difference between the two assertions, don't you?
05 Sep 07
Originally posted by MacSwainPersonally I like the majority of Amercian people I meet.
Why do liberal Europeans have a caustic dislike (to hatred?) of USA?
* USA is equally split liberal & conservative. Does this indicate the dislike is not political?
* Has this dislike come to the fore since the fall of USSR?
* Do recent elections in Germany & France indicate an abrupt change in attitude from previous decades?
* Has this EU pol ...[text shortened]... red due to Putins’ revitalization of Russia’s military re-build?
(have fun everyone...enjoy!)
I don't like the Bush adminstration, hence maybe thats why some people feel that Europeans / others dislike America.
05 Sep 07
1 edit
Originally posted by petrosianpupilI too thought that no one spoke English when i got here, but once you spend a bit of time getting to know French customs so that you're not instantly sh1%ùing proverbialy on their shoes, (there are several subtleties to be learnt) they realise you're not some arrogant Anglophone who is trying to speak your language without trying to speak French very hard and they become very accomodating, and virtually everyone has a near conversational level of English. Not much granted, but no less than my experiences of Spain for example.
Yes it is the language of the business world and the internet.
Eventually it will become the language that the world speaks.
The French are particularly stupid in their silly attempts to prevent the spread of English.
In pretty much the same way that the anglo saxon world has prevented the vastly superior metric system to be used.
Like I said, trying to compare Paris or the French to other "westernised" cultures such as Spain, Germany, Britain etc. in so far as customs and hospitality are concerned is simply futile. What I find sets Paris apart from the really fun cities I've been in (like Glasgow, London, Florence Mallorca I know the last is not a city, but bare with me) is that it's charms, it's true charms, not the touristic ones, are hidden from those who don't know French customs or mode da vie.
To see le pont des arts and all the people having a picnic on it, it seems quite spontaneous, but there's a culture behind it, and certain ways to get invited to one. Simply having your own is not the same experience at all.
By having to immerse yourself in French life and customs to get the best out of it, which is not necessarily required in Glasgow or London for example, it''s all the more rewarding.
True, I'm sure a lot of tourists leave with either a chocolate box image or a distaste for it, but for those who immerse themselves in the culture, there's no better city IMO. Doesn't help the tourists amongst you, but that's what I've found.
05 Sep 07
Originally posted by agrysonSo you have to be French to appreciate the French?
I too thought that no one spoke English when i got here, but once you spend a bit of time getting to know French customs so that you're not instantly sh1%ùing proverbialy on their shoes, (there are several subtleties to be learnt) they realise you're not some arrogant Anglophone who is trying to speak your language without trying to speak French very hard an ...[text shortened]... ter city IMO. Doesn't help the tourists amongst you, but that's what I've found.
05 Sep 07
Originally posted by AThousandYoungNot at all, I'm not French. But you do have to be willing to go further than a city break. Like I said before, there's a habit to assume that the French share a lot of things in common with the rest of the western world. We tend to judge them by our standards. But to use the example I gave earlier, you have to approach the Frecnh culture as if it's feudal Japan. NONE of your initial assumptions, which with most European countries are pretty safe ones, are likely to be valid. Thus, all you need to appreciate French culture to the full is a willingness to enter without any assumptions. It took me about 3 months to get used to France enough to start really enjoying myself, but I wouldn't call myself French by any manner or means.
So you have to be French to appreciate the French?
05 Sep 07
Originally posted by agrysonNow that. I can understand!
I too thought that no one spoke English when i got here, but once you spend a bit of time getting to know French customs so that you're not instantly sh1%ùing proverbialy on their shoes, (there are several subtleties to be learnt) they realise you're not some arrogant Anglophone who is trying to speak your language without trying to speak French very hard an ...[text shortened]... ter city IMO. Doesn't help the tourists amongst you, but that's what I've found.
Same is true of Norwegian culture to a large extent. You need to really get to know them, to become one of them to find out they are totally potty.
You also get to find out what a wonderful lot they are.
05 Sep 07
Originally posted by WheelyYeah, though every culture has it to a certain degree, I find the French are particularily so. (Though I've no experience of the Norwegian, Swedes yes, cool, Norwegians I've never met)
Now that. I can understand!
Same is true of Norwegian culture to a large extent. You need to really get to know them, to become one of them to find out they are totally potty.
You also get to find out what a wonderful lot they are.
05 Sep 07
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Originally posted by agrysonThe thing that gets me is that I went to Paris for the first time, it was on Valentines day. I went with a new girlfried. Pretty romantic you would have thought. She could speak French fairly well and my French is probably better than your average British tourist but not great. I am always willing to try though. This is a better start than for most places I visit (eg. my Dutch just involves loudly clearing my throat and hoping for the best). We both found Paris less interesting than many places we went. We were together for some years so it probably wasn't me that just bored her to death.
Not at all, I'm not French. But you do have to be willing to go further than a city break. Like I said before, there's a habit to assume that the French share a lot of things in common with the rest of the western world. We tend to judge them by our standards. But to use the example I gave earlier, you have to approach the Frecnh culture as if it's feudal Ja ...[text shortened]... h to start really enjoying myself, but I wouldn't call myself French by any manner or means.
Now, this same girl and I drove across France about four years ago and both loved it. The people were lovely, welcoming beyond the call of duty, and as nice as you could want. The towns and villages are charming and the south of France was fantastic.
I've always had a soft spot for the French so I'm not sure it's right to lump all the French in with the Parisians and in an case, I'm not blaming them for my experiences.
However, you are in a better position to know these things of course.
05 Sep 07
[I]it's true charms, not the touristic ones, are hidden from those who don't know French customs or mode da vie.[/I]
The same can be said about almost any state in the U.S. (Alaska being an example of the exception), doubly so for most red states.
The question is, is that a good or a bad thing?
05 Sep 07
Originally posted by WheelyWell, like I said on the last page, Paris is an entity in and of itself, and I know a lot of people who even after doing the whole integration thing don't like it. I do, but I can definitely see how it's not for everyone.
The thing that gets me is that I went to Paris for the first time, it was on Valentines day. I went with a new girlfried. Pretty romantic you would have thought. She could speak French fairly well and my French is probably better than your average British tourist but not great. I am always willing to try though. This is a better start than for most places ...[text shortened]... or my experiences.
However, you are in a better position to know these things of course.
05 Sep 07
Originally posted by MerkWell, yeah, of course it can be said about any place or culture. I don't know about red states, never been in one, but I think it's perfectly reasonable and even preferable to have a culture of your own that is not instantly transparent. Otherwise there's no enjoyment to be found in exploring that culture. The flipside is that there has to be something that would encourage you to begin that process.
[I]it's true charms, not the touristic ones, are hidden from those who don't know French customs or mode da vie.[/I]
The same can be said about almost any state in the U.S. (Alaska being an example of the exception), doubly so for most red states.
The question is, is that a good or a bad thing?
05 Sep 07
Originally posted by agrysonyou have to approach the Frecnh culture as if it's feudal Japan.
Not at all, I'm not French. But you do have to be willing to go further than a city break. Like I said before, there's a habit to assume that the French share a lot of things in common with the rest of the western world. We tend to judge them by our standards. But to use the example I gave earlier, you have to approach the Frecnh culture as if it's feudal Ja ...[text shortened]... h to start really enjoying myself, but I wouldn't call myself French by any manner or means.
We'll send over the Navy to force your ports open whether you damn Frenchies like it or not!
19 Sep 07
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundI think it's because: 1. "they" have adopted English as the universal languagein every civilized country on the planet; 2. When the television news comes on, no matter what country you are watching it in, the lead story, 2nd lead story, etc. is always something that's going on in the United States--in short, if it's happening anywhere but in the USA, it's just not important; and 3. plain ol' evolution. There's only one big dog at this point in history, and now (for better or for worse), that would be the United States. It's not pretty and it;s not fair, and it may not even be the preferred condition, but that's the way it is--As goes America, so goes the world.
Why do some Americans think we give a damn what they do ?