No farms, no food, no future

@divegeester said
I’m sure you have some valid data to back that up?

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/SEPDF/cache/73319.pdf

in 2020, 3 percent of farms:

"were responsible for a majority (56.4 % ) of the EU’s total agricultural economic output; these farms can be characterised as being large agricultural enterprises."

@divegeester said
Completely agree; but that only one part of the point of the OP.

Is it too much to ask farmers not to pollute all the water ways to the point where no one can swim in lakes anymore?

What happens after farmers get everything they want regarding erasing the "regulation" of their industry? Pollution will get worse.

@vivify said
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/SEPDF/cache/73319.pdf

in 2020, 3 percent of farms:

"were responsible for a majority (56.4 % ) of the EU’s total agricultural economic output; these farms can be characterised as being large agricultural enterprises."

Ok, thanks .

@wildgrass said
Is it too much to ask farmers not to pollute all the water ways to the point where no one can swim in lakes anymore?

Completely agree; but that only one part of the point of the OP.

@wildgrass said

What happens after farmers get everything they want regarding erasing the "regulation" of their industry? Pollution will get worse.

The problem which is in most of Europe is multifactorial as laid out in the links I shared yesterday.

@divegeester said
The problem which is in most of Europe is multifactorial as laid out in the links I shared yesterday.

Of course it's multifactorial. But the farmers demand for less environmental regulation is unreasonable considering all the damage they're doing to public spaces currently.

@wildgrass said
Of course it's multifactorial. But the farmers demand for less environmental regulation is unreasonable considering all the damage they're doing to public spaces currently.

I won’t argue with this specifically. However the macro problem is that farmers right across Europe are struggling, maybe not the giant corporates, but we all need a spectrum of types and sizes of farms producing a variety of foods and it needs to be profitable and competitive with foreign imports.

Of course the over regulation of the use of fertilisers and pesticides will have a commercial impact on food prices through the supply chain. What I find infuriating (as do farmers across the EU and UK) is that foreign imports are not always as highly regulated. By the way that principle is reflected in domestic fuel where the current UK government are closing our last North Sea gas productions and will then import gas from abroad, probably Saudi and the likes of Russia, under the banner of net zero. It’s bloody madness.

@divegeester said
Since the start of 2024 there have been farming protests across all EU countries. They are protesting a suite of issues including regulation, economic constraints, political favouritism and often the extreme EU net zero targets which are impacting use of fertilisers and use of land. The EU is doing this to its own members!

Here in the UK the net zero maniacs in the La ...[text shortened]... forever at the mercy of the globalists. The EU loving Labour Party should be ashamed of themselves.

You think maybe wastage has anything to do with it? It was estimated that around 70% of the edible food, either locally produced or imported is dumped. Seems like a very high figure. Plus there are practices by farmers which are designed to maintain high prices. This includes destroying crops, killing surplus animals etc.

Could be that if wasteful practices were not the norm there would be no need to some of the regulation you mentioned.

@divegeester said
I won’t argue with this specifically. However the macro problem is that farmers right across Europe are struggling, maybe not the giant corporates, but we all need a spectrum of types and sizes of farms producing a variety of foods and it needs to be profitable and competitive with foreign imports.

Of course the over regulation of the use of fertilisers and pesticides ...[text shortened]... m abroad, probably Saudi and the likes of Russia, under the banner of net zero. It’s bloody madness.

There are some simple things that farmers can do to reduce fertilizer runoff without big impacts on profits. Government can incentivize that.

I'm not sure I understand you last point. Net zero fuel offsets seems silly but perhaps adds some flexibility to the farmer to choose how they want to reduce environmental impacts of their businesses?

@Cliff-Mashburn said
Do you have any idea how much land a family would need to raise their own food for year around self-sufficiency? How much time and work it would require?
Do YOU grow your own food?

I've grown some of my own food in the past yes but now it's impossible, being a homeless bum.

And it doesn't require as land as you think, have you ever heard of urban farm? People in apartments with no 'land' creating space for food production. But for year round self sufficiently of course it's extremely difficult, and mass farming is needed but not at the damaging scale it's currently at.

In the end everything, whether it's farming or fishing or any other manufacturing, people are greedy and just want to make a profit. Something that if we're going to live on this planet for much longer needs to change.

@wildgrass said
There are some simple things that farmers can do to reduce fertilizer runoff without big impacts on profits. Government can incentivize that.

I'm not sure I understand you last point. Net zero fuel offsets seems silly but perhaps adds some flexibility to the farmer to choose how they want to reduce environmental impacts of their businesses?

The bottom line is that farmers across Europe are protesting at EU over regulation.

Why can’t you see there’s a big problem.

@divegeester said
I thought not…

what not?

@divegeester said
Since the start of 2024 there have been farming protests across all EU countries. They are protesting a suite of issues including regulation, economic constraints, political favouritism and often the extreme EU net zero targets which are impacting use of fertilisers and use of land. The EU is doing this to its own members!

Here in the UK the net zero maniacs in the La ...[text shortened]... forever at the mercy of the globalists. The EU loving Labour Party should be ashamed of themselves.

The globalists used propaganda to get environmentalists to bite the hand that feeds them. The reasons they use to claim farmers are bad for the environment don't even make any sense. It is completely faith based.

People often get duped into supporting policies that are against their own interest. Now they want to pay more for food after bitching about inflation of food prices. I guess they are planning to eat bugs. You know, the same bugs they complain farmers are killing.

These are the same people who want to reduce CO2 emissions while letting their military increase them. You cannot expect them to think logically. They insist we must take action.......starting.......now. Oh, the military told us to F off. Couldn't make them. Still need to take action.........starting.....now!

@Chuck-2 said
what not?

@Chuck-2 said
@divegeester
nationalise all uk farms

@divegeester said
@Chuck-2
Could you explain your commercial and political rationale for this and what you think the impact would be on consumer prices and export competitiveness?

@A-Unique-Nickname said
I've grown some of my own food in the past yes but now it's impossible, being a homeless bum.

And it doesn't require as land as you think, have you ever heard of urban farm? People in apartments with no 'land' creating space for food production. But for year round self sufficiently of course it's extremely difficult, and mass farming is needed but not at the dam ...[text shortened]... make a profit. Something that if we're going to live on this planet for much longer needs to change.

In a rural area a garden may require fencing to keep out the deer unless you only grow garlic or something else deer do not like to eat. That is one of the upsides to urban farming. You don't have a deer problem in the city.

Fencing is expensive. Deer can jump a very high fence in the day time, but they don't at night when they usually raid your garden.