25 Jun 09
Originally posted by FMFI've heard the opposite that the Soviets had major plans on when & How to invade Western Europe. Also explain the closing off of East Berlin? I think the whole MAD thing had some credence. Why attack if both sides will get totally destroyed?
It had no plans to. The archives were opened after 50 years and especially after the fall of wretched communism. For me history gets updated when new facts come to light. Some people settle for the Cold War version of history. The U.S.S.R. had the buffer zone it required. Them "rolling over Western Europe" was all about justifying very serious wealth redistribut ...[text shortened]... ntagon, retired generals and on-the-payroll legislators play their never ending pick up games.
Manny
25 Jun 09
Originally posted by FMFThey had no plans to? You are saying if there was no U.S. presence in Europe after ww2 the ussr would of been content w/ what they already had?
It had no plans to. The archives were opened after 50 years and especially after the fall of wretched communism. For me history gets updated when new facts come to light. Some people settle for the Cold War version of history. The U.S.S.R. had the buffer zone it required. Them "rolling over Western Europe" was all about justifying very serious wealth redistribut ...[text shortened]... ntagon, retired generals and on-the-payroll legislators play their never ending pick up games.
25 Jun 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonI think Patton had the right idea. He knew the Soviets would do what they did. What happened? History knows.
They had no plans to? You are saying if there was no U.S. presence in Europe after ww2 the ussr would of been content w/ what they already had?
Manny
25 Jun 09
Originally posted by menace71Military brass have detailed plans for every contingency. What "the Soviets" were actually going to do is a completely different story. Cold War Versionists loved those contingency plans. I would bet my bottom Rupiah that the pentagon has plans drawn up to rescue American nationals from Den Haag in the Netherlands using military units. What a major kerfuffle that would be. Does it mean the U.S. has major plans to invade the Netherlands. Er... yes, er... Whoah. Those wicked Americans, eh?
I've heard the opposite that the Soviets had major plans on when & How to invade Western Europe. Also explain the closing off of East Berlin?
The closing off of East Berlin? Well you can't have a come and go as you please portal when you're trying to run a communist tyranny, can you?
25 Jun 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonIt's a hypothetical, of course. It is my view that they'd taken what they needed. We have enough documents, autobiographies and generals' recollections that've come out of what was the Warsaw pact zone to support my view. Personally I didn't want to grow up in a place like Poland or East Germany. Wouldn't even want the possibility of it hanging over me. So if I could live out my youth again, I would not change anything with regard to the N.A.T.O. deployment in Western Europe. My gratitude to the U.S. is however tainted slightly by the feeling that I didn't want to grow up in Guatemala, El Salvador, Ecuador etc. etc. either. If you know what I mean.
You are saying if there was no U.S. presence in Europe after ww2 the ussr would of been content w/ what they already had?
25 Jun 09
Originally posted by FMFAgreed LOL. Have to have plans. However N.K. did invade S.K. whats to say that it will not happen again? I guess something has held them back. Actually one of the guys I worked with was stationed in S.K. and he was telling that the N.K. bored out tunnels that would allow fast access to S.K. if they decided to invade again. He was saying that we would close these tunnels off and mine them. However N.K. would re-open them or bore more.
Military brass have detailed plans for every contingency. What "the Soviets" were actually going to do is a completely different story. Cold War Versionists loved those contingency plans. I would bet my bottom Rupiah that the pentagon has plans drawn up to rescue American nationals from Den Haag in the Netherlands using military units. What a major kerfuffle tha ...[text shortened]... e a come and go as you please portal when you're trying to run a communist tyranny, can you?
Manny
25 Jun 09
Originally posted by FMFAre you saying we would still be occupying Russia? If Patton would have invaded? Look at Japan yeah we occupied them after WW2 but we finally gave then their country back. I don't buy that we occupy forever. Also some of these countries that we occupied in the past finally get tired of us and kick us out anyway.
Russia would be still be a de facto police state as it is now, only probably still occupied by the U.S. to this day.
Manny
25 Jun 09
Originally posted by menace71The U.S. hasn't tried to pick fights with Japan since 1955. But the U.S., since the fall of wrteched communism and the initial disastrous "privatization" of the early 1990s (one of the greatest "advertisements" for boggle-eyed capitalism, if ever there was one), has behaved like it needed to pick fights with the Russians. Something to do with the American national psyche maybe. Needing enemies. I would like to have seen the U.S. try to foist a Japan style demilitarized 'peace constitution' on the Russians. Moscow will be a regional pole in a future multi-polar world - in a way that Japan won't, or at least very differently. In PattonWorld, either the U.S. and/or its proxies would still be there, or they would have been sent packing in the 60s there somewhere, like they were from Vietnam. In that respect, yes, I take your point about the Philippines.
Are you saying we would still be occupying Russia? If Patton would have invaded? Look at Japan yeah we occupied them after WW2 but we finally gave then their country back. I don't buy that we occupy forever. Also some of these countries that we occupied in the past finally get tired of us and kick us out anyway.
25 Jun 09
Originally posted by FMFThey make or used to anyway make all of the cool electronics. Japan that is. 😉 I think Russia is on it way back to it's old ways. I don't think they can be held back. I have mixed feelings about there intentions but were not helping things with that whole missile defense thing.
The U.S. hasn't tried to pick fights with Japan since 1955. But the U.S., since the fall of wrteched communism and the initial disastrous "privatization" of the early 1990s (one of the greatest "advertisements" for boggle-eyed capitalism, if ever there was one), has behaved like it needed to pick fights with the Russians. Something to do with the American nation ...[text shortened]... e they were from Vietnam. In that respect, yes, I take your point about the Philippines.
25 Jun 09
Originally posted by menace71Is the U.S. back to its old ways? Or showing some new ways? On its on its way from one set of "ways" to the other? In which direction? I wonder what Russians think of the U.S.'s "ways"? I wonder if Russians think that the U.S. can't be held back.
I think Russia is on it way back to it's old ways.
25 Jun 09
I worked with two & hired one Ukrainian young man and they both said that yes Russia is trying to flex their muscle in Eastern Europe. Mainly Putin they were telling me Putin is old school KGB and that he will never change. Of course Ukrainian people seem to be very proud actually don't want to go back to Russian domination. They did say however that there was a perception that Americans had a cowboy mentality. I enjoy the Ukrainian people all the ones I have met our cool people.
Manny