@averagejoe1 saidI'm not a liberal but I can explain and I think if you actually think about it you might think that in most cases cash bail helps no one.
https://www.ky3.com/2022/09/09/gates-are-open-illinois-ending-cash-bail-system/
Can you of liberal bent, at least, without being facetious or clever, tell us the mindset that causes such decisions as this?
Foreigners, please refrain, as you would not understand cultural problems if they happened on your back porch.
🤔 😏
Bail's main purpose is to ensure that you show up for court. If you aren't a flight risk and your aren't ridiculously dangerous there is no reason to put someone in jail before adjudicating their case.
In fact as an economic conservative one should be happy that society does not have to be pay to house someone in jail before trial. We can always give a jail sentence AFTER trial, if it is appropriate. But after trial person the defendant was convicted beyond a reasonable doubt after having the opportunity to present a defense which seems more palatable then keeping someone in jail before they had the opportunity to show that they did not actually commit the crime.
@no1marauder saidCorrect. His acts, as we know them, however, were felonious acts.
Mr. Pelosi isn't a felon.unless and until he is actually convicted of a felony.
@no1marauder saidI do not write here as if we are all lawyers. Some are not. Full disclosure, I am (was) a business transaction lawyer, so trial details elude me a tad. I am sure you are correct. There was more money to be made on the other side of the fence, so moved into other stuff.
Will you buy a legal dictionary?
I'm tired of explaining to you basic concepts of law which you seem incapable of understanding. Both the "clear and convincing" standard and the legal concept of "proof" are well defined and those definitions are easily accessible via a proper Google search.
To the layman, your comments imply to turn the accused on to the street is there is no proof, so they are eligible for release, just like that. It is a bit more than that, ne'ces pas. A fairly broad statement.
13 Sep 22
@earl-of-trumps saidThere's really no evidence to support the idea that crime goes "way up" when bail reform of the type mentioned in the OP is implemented:
the real problem with ending the cash bail system is, they will inevitably get a new arrestee who is awaiting trial
and has had several arrests since the trial date was set. You know that is what we are going to see. crime will go way up
"The bottom line: There isn’t enough evidence to say definitively that any given bail reform proposal would increase or decrease crime. All of the existing research suggests that any effect would be relatively small."
https://theappeal.org/bail-reform-crime-data-backlash/
13 Sep 22
@averagejoe1 saidFine, but perhaps you should refrain from voicing an opinion when you are aware you don't know what you are talking about.
I do not write here as if we are all lawyers. Some are not. Full disclosure, I am (was) a business transaction lawyer, so trial details elude me a tad. I am sure you are correct. There was more money to be made on the other side of the fence, so moved into other stuff.
To the layman, your comments imply to turn the accused on to the street is there is no proof, s ...[text shortened]... le for release, just like that. It is a bit more than that, ne'ces pas. A fairly broad statement.
" "clear and convincing” means that the evidence is highly and substantially more likely to be true than untrue. In other words, the fact finder must be convinced that the contention is highly probable." https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/clear_and_convincing_evidence#:~:text=The%20clear%20and%20convincing%20evidence,to%20be%20true%20than%20untrue.
Proof
"The establishment of a fact by the use of evidence. Anything that can make a person believe that a fact or proposition is true or false. It is distinguishable from evidence in that proof is a broad term comprehending everything that may be adduced at a trial, whereas evidence is a narrow term describing certain types of proof that can be admitted at trial."
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Proof
@no1marauder saidWow. Did everyone get that? Are you trying to shift our attention from things such as FBI knocking on hundreds of homes seeking out attendees on Jan 6!.? Biden sicking FBI on the populace. Anonymous tips, sickening,
Fine, but perhaps you should refrain from voicing an opinion when you are aware you don't know what you are talking about.
" "clear and convincing” means that the evidence is highly and substantially more likely to be true than untrue. In other words, the fact finder must be convinced that the contention is highly probable." https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/clear_and_co ...[text shortened]... pes of proof that can be admitted at trial."
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Proof
Read us more textbook.
You need to hang out more; maybe with Shav. Loosen up.
@averagejoe1 saidMaybe you should read the title of the thread you are posting in and stick to its subject rather than ranting about nonexistent right wing fantasies.
Wow. Did everyone get that? Are you trying to shift our attention from things such as FBI knocking on hundreds of homes seeking out attendees on Jan 6!.? Biden sicking FBI on the populace. Anonymous tips, sickening,
Read us more textbook.
You need to hang out more; maybe with Shav. Loosen up.
This might be particularly appropriate when it was you who started the thread to discuss the subject of reforms to cash bail.
@no1marauder saidIllinois Ends Cash Bail System. It is curious indeed and deserves a look see.
Maybe you should read the title of the thread you are posting in and stick to its subject rather than ranting about nonexistent right wing fantasies.
This might be particularly appropriate when it was you who started the thread to discuss the subject of reforms to cash bail.
Lighten up feller. Why say fantasy,,do you think we think this stuff up? Don’t have to. I’ll send you something on the ongoing FBI aggression against citizens in their homes tomorrow. 3 of the armed basterds knocked on door of one Lisa Gallagher, and demanded her calendar , checking her whereabouts on Jan 6.
Hey, did YOU just accuse ME of not sticking to a subject? I’ve nailed you and cronies, more than once. Ask Anybody!,,
@AverageJoe1
While you are lawyering, tell everyone how Hillary has escaped prosecution for her criminal acts. What a joke, as will be your not-answer. Be careful, don’t lose your RHP creds by saying she did nothing wrong.
13 Sep 22
@averagejoe1 saidI went all through that BS in the Summer of 2016.
@AverageJoe1
While you are lawyering, tell everyone how Hillary has escaped prosecution for her criminal acts. What a joke, as will be your not-answer. Be careful, don’t lose your RHP creds by saying she did nothing wrong.
I suggest you read the transcript of James Comey's statement of July 5, 2016 here: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system
13 Sep 22
@quackquack said
I'm not a liberal but I can explain and I think if you actually think about it you might think that in most cases cash bail helps no one.
Bail's main purpose is to ensure that you show up for court. If you aren't a flight risk and your aren't ridiculously dangerous there is no reason to put someone in jail before adjudicating their case.
In fact as an economic conse ...[text shortened]... someone in jail before they had the opportunity to show that they did not actually commit the crime.
In fact as an economic conservative one should be happy that society does not have to be pay to house someone in jail before trial.
Nice post. This here is the crux of the matter. There's so much tax money wasted in the system. It's good to see some people thinking about not using tax money if it's not effective. It's Democrats, but still.