Debates
21 Feb 09
23 Feb 09
Originally posted by generalissimoForget it. I've already broken my Code Of Conduct by issuing an 'irony alert' for one of my own posts. If you don't know the difference between sarcasm and irony after 5 years in Britain, you're not going to 'get it' in a post from me squeezed into the moments between now and me going to bed.
so what did you mean?
23 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFI get what you meant.
Forget it. I've already broken my Code Of Conduct by issuing an 'irony alert' for one of my own posts. If you don't know the difference between sarcasm and irony after 5 years in Britain, you're not going to 'get it' in a post from me squeezed into the moments between now and me going to bed.
Im just seeing how far I can go.
23 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFYou can't really assume from my post that I think there's something wrong with black people. Of course I don't!
The finger is in the dam: doping will be a fully integrated part of sporting excellence and record breaking before too long, because it has been for 50 years, but it takes a little while for the worm to turn. No wonder the world "is very tolerant of dopers".
And there's nothing wrong with black people.
My point was that neither dopers nor black people got barred from competing in the Dubai tennis tourney, what this thread was originally about, just an Israeli.
24 Feb 09
1 edit
FMF I don't know if you legitimately heard the story because it wasn't made clear in the first post.
An Israeli tennis player, Shahar Peer, was banned from the tournament because, despite it being held in Dubai, one of the more "progressive" Arab states, they thought her presence would excited some of the fans in undesireable ways, so out of "consideration" for Shahar's safety they banned her from the tourney.
Old fashioned anti semitism with a newly fashioned explanation.
24 Feb 09
Originally posted by The Dude 84No I didn't assume that.
You can't really assume from my post that I think there's something wrong with black people. Of course I don't!
My point was that neither dopers nor black people got barred from competing in the Dubai tennis tourney, what this thread was originally about, just an Israeli.
My point was that Dubai doesn't choose to ban dopers and doesn't choose to ban black people, perhaps for the reasons I offered. It chooses to ban an Israeli tennis player though.
An Israeli tennis player, Shahar Peer, [...] out of "consideration" for Shahar's safety they banned her from the tourney. Old fashioned anti semitism with a newly fashioned explanation.
I disagree. It's old-fashioned protest. It's outrage in action. It's a "diplomatic" gesture. I think if you bandy about the "anti semitism" thing in case like this, it loses much of its meaning. Shahar Peer has no 'right' to enter Dubai. But Dubai does have the right to express its displeasure with what happened in Gaza at the beginning of this year - by way of boycotts, expulsions, bans, barrings, whatever. hat's the way of the world. Israel banned Jewish commentator and outspoken anti-Zionist Norman Finkelstein from entering Israel (for life) a few months back. Was that "anti semitism"? No. It was a protest against his opinions and beliefs. It was also a political gesture.
I suggest you keep your powder dry on the "anti semitism" thing. There are people out there who wish to do harm to Jews for their ethnicity, and not because of power and politics. Brandish the "anti semitism" more judiciously, or it will mean nothing. Imagine if the tables turned in the levant, and the "Arabs" were in the ascendency. Imagine if all the Jews were herded into the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Imagine if they were then subjected collective punishment, humiliations and deprivations heaped upon humiliations and deprivations, borders sealed, water turned off, electricity turned off, medical supplies stopped at checkpoints... all becuase they were Jews. Save the "anti semitism" alert for when stuff is really bad and simply cannot be explained any other way. Don't toss it away so cheaply when a tennis player misses a tournament because Dubai is partaking in a bit of bog standard gesture politics, expressing its outrage - an outrage I also feel - about what Israel did to Gaza back in January.
24 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFWhat you described has happened to Jews for thousands of years. It's a good thing I need imagination to summon the image. I am grateful for it all the time.
No I didn't assume that.
My point was that Dubai doesn't choose to ban dopers and doesn't choose to ban black people, perhaps for the reasons I offered. It chooses to ban an Israeli tennis player though.
[b]An Israeli tennis player, Shahar Peer, [...] out of "consideration" for Shahar's safety they banned her from the tourney. Old fashioned anti semitism w ...[text shortened]... outrage - an outrage I also feel - about what Israel did to Gaza back in January.
What you're describing in the Levant is equally based on politics. Palestinians aren't herded into Gaza or the West Bank! If any Arab nation said they'd absorb them into their population it'd be done tomorrow. For some strange reason Arab nations would rather Palestinians live in refugee camps.
Anyway, Dubai's decision may be political, but that doesn't mean it's not based in anti semitism. It's a thin line and I understand your point that Dubai has considerations to weigh, but let tennis players play tennis. I woudn't be surprised if it was the Syrian World Championship but Dubai is pretty different, or so I thought. Whether it's anti-semitism or they love jews and it's political I think it's the wrong decision.
Please don't act as if you don't know that Palestinians smuggle materials to make rockets by claiming they're medical supplies. Borders are checked because Hamas' goal is to wipe out civilians. Ignoring this is disingenuous. Electricity gets turned off when rockets land in Israel. I think it's sort of funny how that was the policy for years and Israelis complained that putting a temporary halt to the supply of electricity they were handing their enemies wasn't "proportionate" for sending lethal rockets into civilian areas. It's hard to make anyone happy I guess!
Anyway, this is not really the post for this discussion...we can do it somewhere else if you'd like but I think we have 1000 times.
24 Feb 09
Originally posted by The Dude 84It seems that Dubai has made its point, then.
Dubai has considerations to weigh, but let tennis players play tennis. I woudn't be surprised if it was the Syrian World Championship but Dubai is pretty different, or so I thought.
Look Dude 84, some poeple - including many Israelis - were outraged by what happened 2 months ago. If you think that this means that I hate Jews, then that is your prerogative. If you think I am unaware of what has happened to Jews for thousands of years, and that this means I am in some sort of historical denial, and that - by extention - this means I hate Jews, then that is your prerogative. If you think that Palestinians aren't 'herded' into Gaza or the West Bank and that collective punishment of a civilian population is acceptable, and if you think that because I disagree with you then it means I must hate Jews, then that is your prerogative. If you have convinced yourself that I support Hamas, and that I do so because I hate Jews, then that is your prerogative.
I offered you my advice, but it seems that the term "anti-semitism" loses all traction and portent when bandied about by the likes of you and Scriabin.
But, at the very least, Dubai's anti-Zionist political gesture got you thinking.
24 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFWell, their little protest cost them a $300K fine from WTA - not to mention that they could not give the 'real' reason - they had to claim the visa denial was for Peer's safety. Clearly, their moral outrage was not so high that they were willing to risk losing their big yearly tennis event.
It seems that Dubai has made its point, then.
Look Dude 84, some poeple - including many Israelis - were outraged by what happened 2 months ago. If you think that this means that I hate Jews, then that is your prerogative. If you think I am unaware of what has happened to Jews for thousands of years, and that this means I am in some sort of historical denial, ...[text shortened]... iabin.
But, at the very least, Dubai's anti-Zionist political gesture got you thinking.
24 Feb 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitAn Israeli woman was more in danger than an Israeli man,apparently
Well, their little protest cost them a $300K fine from WTA - not to mention that they could not give the 'real' reason - they had to claim the visa denial was for Peer's safety. Clearly, their moral outrage was not so high that they were willing to risk losing their big yearly tennis event.
24 Feb 09
As I see the problem:
(1) A woman got banned.
(2) A black got banned.
(3) A Israeli got banned.
Is she a mother? If so, does that change anything?
Is she gay? If so, does that change anything?
Is she a jew? If so, does that change anything?
She smoked pot. That changed it all!
Tennis, as well as any other sport, should be free of drugs.
It was right that she got banned!
24 Feb 09
Originally posted by The Dude 84was the person banned for being israeli?
You can't really assume from my post that I think there's something wrong with black people. Of course I don't!
My point was that neither dopers nor black people got barred from competing in the Dubai tennis tourney, what this thread was originally about, just an Israeli.
24 Feb 09
Originally posted by FabianFnaspot doesn't improve your performance, in fact its more likely to do the opposite.
As I see the problem:
(1) A woman got banned.
(2) A black got banned.
(3) A Israeli got banned.
Is she a mother? If so, does that change anything?
Is she gay? If so, does that change anything?
Is she a jew? If so, does that change anything?
She smoked pot. That changed it all!
Tennis, as well as any other sport, should be free of drugs.
It was right that she got banned!
the ban was unnecessary.