03 Oct 07
Originally posted by Zahlanziit's a precedence.
for heaven's sake, why care? if the parents want to home school their children, let them. and when they are old and decrepit and the kids are unemployed because they are ignorant as a boot, they can live on whatever God would provide
Stupid people go to hell.
Imagine a huge group people would stop coming to school and start their own private school with something that would be against the majority of the population of a country. It would create a sectary group that would create problems sooner or later.
The state is responsible for the education and well being of their citizens. If parents think the education provided by the state is against their beliefs, they can change country.
If I went to Saudi Arabia I would follow their laws, not try to go against them.
03 Oct 07
Originally posted by ZahlanziAll of the home-schooled people I know have gone on to successful careers as ministers, lawyers, teachers, artists, musicians, etc.. I find them far more interesting and intelligent than many of the people I've met who graduated from public schools and don't have careers (if they work at all) and live on the public's dime.
for heaven's sake, why care? if the parents want to home school their children, let them. and when they are old and decrepit and the kids are unemployed because they are ignorant as a boot, they can live on whatever God would provide
Stupid people go to hell.
03 Oct 07
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterPublic schools do really lower the bar for students.
All of the home-schooled people I know have gone on to successful careers as ministers, lawyers, teachers, artists, musicians, etc.. I find them far more interesting and intelligent than many of the people I've met who graduated from public schools and don't have careers (if they work at all) and live on the public's dime.
Kind of frightening that we Americans really think the government can teach our children better than we can teach our children.
3 cheers for no responsibility.
Plus, if they turn into screw ups, we can just blame the schools instead of the parents who were spending, on average, 5 minutes a day with them.
04 Oct 07
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Originally posted by mdhallYou think the typical ditch digger is better at teaching adolescents trigonomotry than professionals are?
Public schools do really lower the bar for students.
Kind of frightening that we Americans really think the government can teach our children better than we can teach our children.
3 cheers for no responsibility.
Plus, if they turn into screw ups, we can just blame the schools instead of the parents who were spending, on average, 5 minutes a day with them.
If the kid takes biology, he needs to learn evolutionary theory. Otherwise not probably.
04 Oct 07
Originally posted by mdhallYou must have a really lousy education.
Public schools do really lower the bar for students.
Kind of frightening that we Americans really think the government can teach our children better than we can teach our children.
3 cheers for no responsibility.
Plus, if they turn into screw ups, we can just blame the schools instead of the parents who were spending, on average, 5 minutes a day with them.
In here the good students attend public schools. Private schools are made for the bad students that won't be admitted in the good universities by attending the public teaching, and go private to buy their grades (it's hard to get into medicine, for example).
Homeschooling does not exist, and it's mandatory to go to school. Even private schools follow general guidance and programs. Some have catholic teachings as complement to normal education, but they always get an independent point of view.
If you think you can teach your children better then graduated teacher, your country is going really bad.
When the system works, public schooling should be mandatory. We are educating our citizens to live in society, not in some fundamentalist point of view.
04 Oct 07
Originally posted by serigadoWhat is going on in your country is interesting and should be striven for here. However, in the United States, education has been politicized so that not much real learning occurs in our public schools. Here, the people with the lowest aptitudes get teaching degrees and enter into the teaching profession without much knowledge of any subject other than teaching methods (no mastery of math, biology, English, etc.). Consequently, the newly-minted teachers resort to teaching their students about saving the rain forests, social justice and global warming.
You must have a really lousy education.
In here the good students attend public schools. Private schools are made for the bad students that won't be admitted in the good universities by attending the public teaching, and go private to buy their grades (it's hard to get into medicine, for example).
Homeschooling does not exist, and it's mandatory to go to ...[text shortened]... . We are educating our citizens to live in society, not in some fundamentalist point of view.
04 Oct 07
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Originally posted by der schwarze RitterHowever, in the United States, education has been politicized so that not much real learning occurs in our public schools.
What is going on in your country is interesting and should be striven for here. However, in the United States, education has been politicized so that not much real learning occurs in our public schools. Here, the people with the lowest aptitudes get teaching degrees and enter into the teaching profession without much knowledge of any subject oth ...[text shortened]... ort to teaching their students about saving the rain forests, social justice and global warming.
Not true at my school.
Here, the people with the lowest aptitudes get teaching degrees and enter into the teaching profession without much knowledge of any subject other than teaching methods (no mastery of math, biology, English, etc.).
This is sort of true at my school but not completely. I for example never got a foothold in biotech or a graduate program so I went into teaching. However my ignorance and knowledge are exactly the opposite of what you suggest. I'm ignorant of teaching methods but perfectly competent with math, science and I'm pretty good at English too. I do agree that majors in education are often incompetent in the things they are supposed to be teaching.
Right now I am a Teacher's Assistant in my main job. I work in a science class under a woman whose degree is in economics with a biology minor. She teaches physical science as well as life science.
The only reason I'm not a full science teacher is that I haven't taken the CSET test which is required. My principal keeps bugging me to take it.
04 Oct 07
While I do think Sprokets' (DSR) is a little misguided about environmental issues, he is correct about what a joke is the US elementary education.
According to my Japanese colleagues this is the opposite in their country.
Where the focus is largely on primary education, and then the US really dominates in higher education.
I'm not sure what % of Americans take advantage of college, bu they are often at an intellectual disadvantage having been handicapped by low standards and an attitude that failure is okay.
As far as the history of the US's failing education I have heard rumors that it declined sharply in the 60's following the Dr. Spock craze regarding the raising and teaching of children.
I'm no expert on Spock, but if the rumors are true, he really did the US a great injustice.
I'm all for not psychologically damaging children but the constant coddling and acceptance of stupidity, failure, and negative attitudes seems to have proven to be counter-productive since the 60's.
05 Oct 07
Originally posted by serigadotake the Amish for example. they are home schooled. they won't ever know anything more than milking cows and plowing fields. which is ok because they don't want anything else. however if they decide to leave the Amish community they cannot exist in the outside world without a proper education.
it's a precedence.
Imagine a huge group people would stop coming to school and start their own private school with something that would be against the majority of the population of a country. It would create a sectary group that would create problems sooner or later.
The state is responsible for the education and well being of their citizens. If parents t ...[text shortened]... ange country.
If I went to Saudi Arabia I would follow their laws, not try to go against them.
the laws don't force people to learn anything. the society simply states what is needed from its individuals. so parents homeschooling their children either assume the responsibility of turning them into fine citizens. if they fail, the children applying for jobs will be surpassed by children who learned in public schools. Society will get what she needs.
Or they decide that the children will live in their society rather than in ours. And then the child growing into an adult will either have to accept this choice or struggle to get out. No harm to the society.
05 Oct 07
Originally posted by mdhallExcellent point.
As far as the history of the US's failing education it declined sharply in the 60's following the Dr. Spock craze regarding the raising and teaching of children.
I'm all for not psychologically damaging children but the constant coddling and acceptance of stupidity, failure, and negative attitudes seems to have proven to be counter-productive since the 60's.
Just think ... those who were reared by those damaging techniques beginning in the 60's are now running the USA!
05 Oct 07
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Originally posted by MacSwainDid you know that the incidence of violent crime dropped like a rock around 1993 in the US?
Excellent point.
Just think ... those who were reared by those damaging techniques beginning in the 60's are now running the USA!
The people who were young adults in 1993 were raised by the 60's generation.
05 Oct 07
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Originally posted by AThousandYoungWell, Spock was correct that abuse is not the best method of re-enforcing positive behaviors and discouraging negative behaviors; however, giving only positive feedback to the point of lying to children is not getting us very far either.
Did you know that the incidence of violent crime dropped like a rock around 1993 in the US?
The people who were young adults in 1993 were raised by the 60's generation.
I'm no parent so I cannot say, but why is it that humans are obsessed with lying to their children.
Allowing children to not experience success AND failures; wins AND losses; life AND death until they are a certain age just makes for maladjusted adults.
Look at all the suburban children who are vegan simply because they're scared to see an animal die! I'm all for a healthier diet, but this is absurd.
Children in America today are raised in a complete fantasy world where they are promised success and riches and winning, but that simply is not reality.
"Don't kid yourself and don't fool yourself. This life's too good to last and too old to trade." - Muse
This quandary goes for a lot of things.
We don't want children driving at young ages because it's dangerous.
So, we make them wait until they've past they're most advanced motor skill learning stages and end up with dangerous adolescent drivers.
We don't want children drinking so we force them to dodge around during high school and do it in incredibly unsafe environments.
And as far as discouraging negative behaviors; I've not heard any parent I know have a consistent methodology. It's like they just pretend the behaviors don't exist until they have an unhealthy emotional breakdown.
I think the US is in a transition period from pre-60's to something better.