@averagejoe1 saidGreat idea. Let's do it.
A pretty small tax cut? Jesus. Am I reading this right? Do you think it is small to the loser who is having his debt paid off? It is REAL big to him.
Oh, how about a simple answer, ,,.....if it is not really costing anything to forgive the debt, why can we not apply the same formula to the FHA loans that have been taken out by first time homebuyers? Their mort ...[text shortened]... ages. Why not pay off those loans? That should be an easy one, and it may enlighten our readers.
I'll let a Nobel prize winner in Economics explain it to you:
"Although the broad estimates of the total amount of canceled debt can be big—some reach hundreds of billions of dollars—these figures derive only from budgeting practices for how credit programs like student loans are recorded. The government and budget analysts calculate a number that is known as “the present discounted value of foregone payments.” This corresponds to a current estimated value not of the lost payments this year, but of those in all future years. In other words, this calculation treats all of the losses from debt cancellation as though they occurred right now in a single year (adjusted for inflation)—a far cry from the reality. Such an accounting procedure can be an appropriate practice for thinking about the government’s long-run balance sheet, but it is a very poor guide for understanding what actually happens to people’s spending."
"The actual amount of annual debt payments that would be reduced now, during this present inflationary episode, will probably run to tens of billions of dollars, not hundreds of billions. The lower number is likely because, again, many of those whose debt is being forgiven would not be making the payments anyway; many people with these debts simply don’t have the economic means to repay them.
The costs of cancellation are also far less than the value to be realized when student-debt payments resume after having been halted during the pandemic. Right now, because of the forbearance put into place in 2020, no payments are being made on government-owned student loans. This policy was essential to stabilize the economy during the pandemic. As part of a larger program of cancellation, the Biden administration would end forbearance; the resumption of payments in January is estimated to be worth more than $30 billion annually."
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/biden-student-debt-cancelation-stiglitz/671228/
You've been spoon fed a bunch of simplistic propaganda and being a borderline idiot have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
@averagejoe1 saidThe Real World is calling.
You say that the policy benefits rich people. So, "It doesn't have to be paid for"? What does that mean. what does 'should last forever" and "always helps the economy" mean?
Then you in effect say that socialism benefits poor people. No question that it does as far as free stuff......But Wildgrass, it will make poor people dependent. Wildgrass? A 'genuous' res ...[text shortened]... ialist, unaffected, but the people we are speaking of will be living under socialism. Ooooooh man..
A spot just opened up at your local asylum.
@averagejoe1 saidThe ones in this country who DO "work harder" are not the rich ones, that is for sure. They never were.
BS, question avoidance by No1Mrauder, the works, empty statements, none of such admit that people who pay taxes will pay the loans off for college students who borrowed the money.
I ask you point blank, and you will NOT say that taxpayers are not footing the bill. Very disingenuous , marauder, indeed. We go day in and day out to get to the crux off the matter, and ...[text shortened]... will foot most of the bill. Keep your eyes out for the IRS,
Some People Work Harder Than Others.
@averagejoe1 saidAnd blame someone for the street people?? Most of who want to be street people?. (there are 7M jobs out there, don't give me the homeless yarn.)
You are right, the world has a lot of bad apples. Y'all love the hypocrite Al Gore, whose electric bill is TWENTY FIVE times the avg elec bill in this country, and flies as does John Kerry all over in their private jets while espousing climate concerns. King,,,,,are you with me here? I guess we could compare all day, couldn't we. And blame someone for the street peopl ...[text shortened]... ne? Pay off his loan, or pay of the loan of the Jester who will go on vacation.>\?
King David?
Joe, I was one of those homeless people for well over 10 years. I lived deep in a cave along the Mississippi River that I made into my home. Tell us, how is a homeless person suppose to work a job with no place to clean up after work? No place to cook or eat? No place to wash cloths, etc etc.
To get a shower at The homeless shelters and drop-ins, one has to wait there hours until their number is called and then one gets 10 minutes to undress, shower, and get dressed again. Try it sometime. They are only open Monday thru Fridays during working business hours. Get the drift. To eat there, it takes about three hours of waiting and standing in line to get a meal; it takes six hours to get a shower and a meal; all during working business hours. Get the drift joey? Once one becomes homeless it's almost impossible to get out of that position, unless one has a streak of good luck or a blessing from God, which ever one, one wants to call it.
They have a lottery every night to see who wins a 3ft by 6ft mat on the floor in a crowed building with hundreds of other homeless people. About 35% are turned away because there is no room left on the floor for another mat. They are turned out into the streets for the night. Joey.... are you with me here? It does not take long until the homeless just say fuk it, and they do what they have to do.
I'm not saying it's only republicans; however, the republican policy's and thought that they push on us as idiots, is what are causing these problems. Many democrats are just playing the field saying one thing, but doing the exact opposite when it comes to real life.
One thing they all have in common, is that they all are wealthy and they are playing us to attack each other, instead of looking at them and their thieving crooked ways. They all say what ever to acquire votes but the moment they are elected just about everything they promised is out the window. I myself really am shocked that Biden stuck with student debt forgiveness. Shocked I say. However, I'm glad he did and it helps me much.
@no1marauder saidWhich group is in more need of socialistic help.....losers who won't pay their tuition loans, or families with no college education who are behind 5 months on mortgage payments?
I'll let a Nobel prize winner in Economics explain it to you:
"Although the broad estimates of the total amount of canceled debt can be big—some reach hundreds of billions of dollars—these figures derive only from budgeting practices for how credit programs like student loans are recorded. The government and budget analysts calculate a number that is known as “the pres ...[text shortened]... bunch of simplistic propaganda and being a borderline idiot have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
Suzanne and other sundry posters will not come close to digesting your opinions of the Nobel guy with his broad estimate crap, my query is quite easier to follow.
Did you get where sue says to pay off all FHA loans? You in concert with that ideology, are you? You have to be, and you will not tell me which group is more needy as I suggest above. That painted corner is a bit crowded with you and Sue in there, and wild grass is in the next room.
Why wont you tell me which group is more needy? Do you have to search for links first? Jesus . How in the WORLD do you and your paralegal find this stuff? One pontificator after another you throw out there, none of which help with the thread question.
Did you see whereSue says to pay off FHA loans?
@averagejoe1 saidLet's talk about those billions of dollars in PPP loans that were forgiven for the wealthy and corporations ? Joey? Quit avoiding this question Joey? They are wealthy joe and they can afford to pay it back; unlike the poor. So joe?
Which group is in more need of socialistic help.....losers who won't pay their tuition loans, or families with no college education who are behind 5 months on mortgage payments?
Suzanne and other sundry posters will not come close to digesting your opinions of the Nobel guy with his broad estimate crap, my query is quite easier to follow.
Did you get where sue s ...[text shortened]... re, none of which help with the thread question.
Did you see whereSue says to pay off FHA loans?
@kingdavid403 saidRight on!
And blame someone for the street people?? Most of who want to be street people?. (there are 7M jobs out there, don't give me the homeless yarn.)
Joe, I was one of those homeless people for well over 10 years. I lived deep in a cave along the Mississippi River that I made into my home. Tell us, how is a homeless person suppose to work a job with no place to clea ...[text shortened]... stuck with student debt forgiveness. Shocked I say. However, I'm glad he did and it helps me much.
Well-said.
@averagejoe1 saidHow do you even live with yourself?
Which group is in more need of socialistic help.....losers who won't pay their tuition loans, or families with no college education who are behind 5 months on mortgage payments?
Suzanne and other sundry posters will not come close to digesting your opinions of the Nobel guy with his broad estimate crap, my query is quite easier to follow.
Did you get where sue s ...[text shortened]... re, none of which help with the thread question.
Did you see whereSue says to pay off FHA loans?
How do you sleep at night?
@KingDavid403. I am truly sorry if my comments, meant to be general, offended you, but know that I have often said that our government should totally care for the 40M down and out citizens of our country. I cannot pretend to get a feel for your plight as you describe it. I am retired and work with such situations but mostly limited to the young, underprivileged, mostly black, with the common denominator of being 'at risk'. I am personal friends with Leigh Ann Touhy, adoptive mother of the black boy that she brought from the depths to be a famous football star. That is my deal, so I understand. Again, I speak generally, to a group here that is about 80% liberal, and 45% socialist, giving away and ruining our country. You can't blame me for pointing things that are monstrous, promoted by these people. One says above for the govt to forgive FHA loans. What can I do?!?!?
My short answer are sites such as this link here, showing opportunities for the MOST down and out people to get a new start. There are many. Tell your downtrodden friends that today is the first day of the rest of their life, and to get with it. Seems you did it, as you have this computer life and seem to have some stuff going on away from that river.
All the best, we can get back to jaw-boning, we don't all know each other, we are only debating issues, not each other's personal lives or occupations. Apologies for any mean-spirited comments, being in the minority makes a man a bit on the defense. Especially when I am right. Note that libs never answer my straight forward questions, which certainly gives me some measure of credibility.
Here is a sample link, not that you are unaware of these links. I wasn't myself till I looked this one up for this post. I knew they would be there. Show these jobs to your old friends.
https://www.70millionjobs.com
@averagejoe1 saidIf you mean you're far stupider than Joseph Stiglitz, you'll get no argument from me.
Which group is in more need of socialistic help.....losers who won't pay their tuition loans, or families with no college education who are behind 5 months on mortgage payments?
Suzanne and other sundry posters will not come close to digesting your opinions of the Nobel guy with his broad estimate crap, my query is quite easier to follow.
Did you get where sue s ...[text shortened]... re, none of which help with the thread question.
Did you see whereSue says to pay off FHA loans?
Every policy decision should be evaluated on its own merits, not compared to other hypothetical ones (ones which you would, of course, vehemently oppose if told to by the propaganda sites you rely on).
I prefer sticking to the subject at hand rather than veering off into whatever weird tangents your ranting and raving takes you.
@no1marauder saidIt was loaned out, and the money that should have come back isn't; you think that
It's still not being "paid twice".
A portion of the debt is being discharged. That is all.
Moreover, this proposal was part of Biden's campaign promises. The People voted for it indirectly. So the taxpayers have OKed reduction of the outstanding debt the government is owed.
This is what happens is a democratic republic.
is meaningless, let me borrow money from you, that you have to borrow from
someone else, then after you give it to me cancel my debt. We can call it
discharged, and it's no big deal.
@averagejoe1 saidYou really didn't offend me Joe. It's your blind comments that upset me because you have no idea. The things I mentioned are only the tip of the iceberg for the actual homeless.
@KingDavid403. I am truly sorry if my comments, meant to be general, offended you, but know that I have often said that our government should totally care for the 40M down and out citizens of our country. I cannot pretend to get a feel for your plight as you describe it. I am retired and work with such situations but mostly limited to the young, underprivileged, mostl ...[text shortened]... I knew they would be there. Show these jobs to your old friends.
https://www.70millionjobs.com
I actually worked almost the whole time I was homeless. I worked every other day at daily temp labor employment places. On the other days, I would spend all day to get a shower and a meal. Of course daily temp labor places all pay poorly. However, when I actually found a good paying fulltime job, I was not able to keep it due to not being able to shower and eat until that first check, which usually takes a month to get at a new job. Then there is finding a place to live off of one check, along with everything else. Get the drift?
I was homeless during the 90s. I have not been homeless for well over 20 years now. I have a nice middle-class home etc. God is the reason I got out of being homeless and nothing else. It sure was not from any help I received from the government or anywhere else. Anytime someone does help a homeless person out with homelessness, there are always stings attached which non-homeless people do not have to deal with, and these strings can make life extremely difficult. And of course they all tell you that it is your fault that you were homeless; which is far from the truth for most. Not all, but most.
@kellyjay saidCreditors take less than the full amount of a debt owed thousands of times every day in the US.
It was loaned out, and the money that should have come back isn't; you think that
is meaningless, let me borrow money from you, that you have to borrow from
someone else, then after you give it to me cancel my debt. We can call it
discharged, and it's no big deal.
Your "analogy" is confusing; if you borrow money from me and I then decide to cancel the debt, why would it be a "big deal"?
@no1marauder saidIf you had to borrow the money to loan me the money, and my debt is canceled
Creditors take less than the full amount of a debt owed thousands of times every day in the US.
Your "analogy" is confusing; if you borrow money from me and I then decide to cancel the debt, why would it be a "big deal"?
yours isn't.