27 Aug 10
Originally posted by FMFThe attempted murder charge in the U.S. does not require the motive to actually attempt to kill somebody. The charge can be levied in cases where somebody shows an extreme and reckless disregard for human life. So, I gave you a case meant to illustrate why this allowance is made. The case is not meant to be an analogy to the one first mentioned, except inasmuch as it illustrates the justification for U.S. law. As a philosopher, I don't like this sort of conceptual unclarity. I think an attempted murder charge should only be levied in cases where somebody, you know, actually attempts to murder another. But cases like the imaginary one I mentioned should bring charges that are at least as severe as those that typically attend attempted murder.
So you are claiming that Benaissa's motive for killing men (although she hasn't yet, it seems) was to try and see if she could not kill people?
27 Aug 10
Originally posted by FMFWhat am I, your goddamn answer-genie? Look it up. I gave you a link to a case where parents were charged with attempted murder for feeding their kid too little, even though they had no intention of killing her. Does that suffice to answer your question, or were you asking for a case where parents fed their kids hamburgers and fries three times a day? If so, then 'no'. We typically don't charge people for attempted murder when they cause their kids to develop heart disease and diabetes.
"Have any parents been convicted of attempted murder for feeding their children badly?" is a yes/no question as far as I am concerned.
27 Aug 10
Originally posted by utherpendragonEven though those mothers were not attempting to murder their babies and no motive for doing so was established? It strikes me as very unsatisfactory.
Yep. Mothers on crack or meth have been charged while breast feeding and/or having their babies born addicted.
That would be "manslaughter" in the U.K. Much better concept. Murder is murder.
27 Aug 10
3 edits
Originally posted by FMFRight now a mother is being charged w/murder for breast feeding her child while on meth.
Even though those mothers were not attempting to murder their babies and no motive for doing so was established? It strikes me as very unsatisfactory.
That would be "manslaughter" in the U.K. Much better concept. Murder is murder.
A Fayetteville woman has been charged with the murder in March of her 2 month-old infant son. Autopsy results showed that the infant died of methamphetamine intoxication.
Twenty-five year-old Kaisha Poulson was charged with one count of felony murder, two counts of cruelty to children and one count of contributing to the delinquency of a minor, according to officers.
Poulson took "methamphetamine while actively breastfeeding and taking care of her 2 month-old baby that resulted in the death of the baby," according to investigators. The murder charge and an additional charge of cruelty to children was brought against Poulson on Wednesday morning.
http://www.thecitizen.com/articles/07-29-2010/f%E2%80%99ville-woman-charged-murder-infant-son
27 Aug 10
Originally posted by utherpendragonI don't doubt that she was convicted of "attempted murder". My comment is that it appears to be a peculiar distortion of the concept of "murder" if such mothers who were found to have committed "attempted murder" were clearly not attempting to murder their babies and no motive for doing so was established. I wonder whether it is based on a genuine principle of jurisprudence or whether it is somehow the product of hairy chest politics in years gone past, as seems to be the case with 'three strikes'.
I am looking for the paper as we speak... This week a mother is being charged w/murder for breast feeding her child while on meth.
27 Aug 10
Originally posted by utherpendragonI can't agree to this being catagorized as "murder" unless they can establish that she killed her baby intentionally. I think there is nothing wrong with the word "murder" and there's no purpose served by changing or widening its meaning.
Poulson took "methamphetamine while actively breastfeeding and taking care of her 2 month-old baby that resulted in the death of the baby," according to investigators. The murder charge and an additional charge of cruelty to children was brought against Poulson on Wednesday morning.
27 Aug 10
Originally posted by FMFI agree its a bit over the top going back to the days where it started w/ the "war on drugs". Shes being charged w/murder. I doubt she intended to kill her baby but I don't know all the facts either.Only she does.
I don't doubt that she was convicted of "attempted murder". My comment is that it appears to be a peculiar distortion of the concept of "murder" if such mothers who were found to have committed "attempted murder" were clearly not attempting to murder their babies and no motive for doing so was established. I wonder whether it is based on a genuine principle of ...[text shortened]... hairy chest politics in years gone past, as seems to be the case with 'three strikes'.
She was an addict in denial and didn't care enough to think her actions through.IMO
she should be punished no doubt,but murder seems excessive.
27 Aug 10
Originally posted by FMFCertainly with out a doubt. Its the whole "get tough on crime" rhetoric (Republicans) that came out in the 80's really got running in the 90's and is still around now. Mandatory guidelines for sentencing ,3 strikes your out, excessive sentences,etc,etc. Its all crap. IMO
Do you agree with my conjecture that it may be linked - in terms of posturing - with 'three strikes'?
27 Aug 10
Originally posted by bbarrHe cannot help it.
What am I, your goddamn answer-genie? Look it up. I gave you a link to a case where parents were charged with attempted murder for feeding their kid too little, even though they had no intention of killing her. Does that suffice to answer your question, or were you asking for a case where parents fed their kids hamburgers and fries three times a day? If so ...[text shortened]... people for attempted murder when they cause their kids to develop heart disease and diabetes.