1 edit
The abortion debate is complex enough that I pretty much stay clear of it for the most part.
It has it's complexities from the scientific, philosophical, legal and other perspectives.
In many instances, I find myself on the fence in this debate.
One thing I am reasonable certain of .........
I think that the Bible punchers should be relegated to spectator status in this issue that should be left to the more intelligent participants.
This debate should not be driven by religious morality.
Specifically, I see right through those who pretend to take the position of the value of all human life while really holding their position that allowing reproduction management (abortions, birth control, etc...) leads to sexual promiscuity.
Just saying .....
@mghrn55 saidIt’s a reasonable stance, I think it should be a debate for women only but it’s worth noting that the same Bible punchers would probably be very pro death penalty, so their sanctity of life facade is just that and no more.
The abortion debate is complex enough that I pretty much stay clear of it for the most part.
It has it's complexities from the scientific, philosophical, legal and other perspectives.
In many instances, I find myself on the fence in this debate.
One thing I am reasonable certain of .........
I think that the Bible punchers should be relegated to spectator status in this ...[text shortened]... uction management (abortions, birth control, etc...) leads to sexual promiscuity.
Just saying .....
@mott-the-hoople saidYour obviously talking about a parent being denied the potential of the foetus to become a baby.
have an accident involving a pregnant woman the kills the unborn child and you will be charged with the loss of life. that is a hypocritical fact of the left.
Just to be clear it’s the woman’s choice not that of the drunk driver or the trigger happy cop.
1 edit
@vivify saidI agree with Vivify, a pregnant woman makes her own personal decision. I have always agreed with this point on the Forum.
When an unborn can be considered human or not is irrelevant. No matter what stage of development it's in, it is indeed a human life, rapidly developing and growing. Abortion is the killing of a human life.
But the right to an abortion can't be infringed. A woman shouldn't be forced to bring to term a baby she didn't want or didn't plan on. Rape, accidents, birth contr ...[text shortened]... the fact that it's immoral to force a woman to keep a pregnancy she didn't want in the first place.
But there is another part to this argument. If a woman chooses to get pregnant, and I definitely think they do, if she changes her mind about having a baby, does that mean that I, and other taxpayers, should step in with our money and relieve her of the baby with an abortion that we pay for? So, we are not involved with her decision to abort, but we have to finance her next move?
Libs May argue that it costs more for taxpayers if she isn’t allowed to abort. Does that mean that we would have to feed and clothe the child too? I thought that would be her job.
1 edit
@averagejoe1 saidWe have to finance positions that will better society. Unwanted children will only make society worse; eliminating abortion will inevitably result in broken homes, higher crime rates, drug use, depression, suicide, etc.
If a woman chooses to get pregnant, and I definitely think they do, if she changes her mind about having a baby, does that mean that I, and other taxpayers, should step in with our money and relieve her of the baby with an abortion that we pay for? So, we are not involved with her decision to abort, but we have to finance her next move?
Libs May argue that it costs more for taxpayers if she isn’t allowed to abort. Does that mean that we would have to feed and clothe the child too? I thought that would be her job.
If a woman can't afford to raise a child, taxpayer money being spent to help her is one consequence (out of many) if she's not allowed to opt for an abortion.
@averagejoe1 said“ Libs May argue that it costs more for taxpayers if she isn’t allowed to abort. Does that mean that we would have to feed and clothe the child too? I thought that would be her job.”
I agree with Vivify, a pregnant woman makes her own personal decision. I have always agreed with this point on the Forum.
But there is another part to this argument. If a woman chooses to get pregnant, and I definitely think they do, if she changes her mind about having a baby, does that mean that I, and other taxpayers, should step in with our money and reliev ...[text shortened]... oes that mean that we would have to feed and clothe the child too? I thought that would be her job.
No you illiberal fundies wanted the child so you get to clothe and feed it, she would be well within her rights to hand the baby over to the state, or demand support from the state the way she would from an absent father.
@averagejoe1 saidYour attempt to cloud the issue with your ideology is duly noted.
I agree with Vivify, a pregnant woman makes her own personal decision. I have always agreed with this point on the Forum.
But there is another part to this argument. If a woman chooses to get pregnant, and I definitely think they do, if she changes her mind about having a baby, does that mean that I, and other taxpayers, should step in with our money and reliev ...[text shortened]... oes that mean that we would have to feed and clothe the child too? I thought that would be her job.
Suppose a pregnant woman decides to pay for the procedure out of her pocket.
Will you jump and down and scream "baby murder" if a woman terminates her pregnancy and pays for it herself ?
@AverageJoe1 - said
Libs May argue that it costs more for taxpayers if she isn’t allowed to abort.
ya. it also costs taxpayers more money to run the courts and prisons. Close them down?
1 edit
@vivify - said
Unwanted children will only make society worse; eliminating abortion will inevitably result in broken homes, higher crime rates, drug use, depression, suicide, etc.
Yes yes, we see all that with women that get pregnant just to get on the welfare payroll. Very sad.
But I caution you, you can say the same liabilities exist with keeping prisoners alive.
And I am sure you don't want to start eliminating them on that basis.
At the very least, late term abortions are murder.
@earl-of-trumps saidAre you sure, I thought prisoners in the US were reasonably profitable, anyway doesn’t Texas have the death penalty.
@vivify - said
Unwanted children will only make society worse; eliminating abortion will inevitably result in broken homes, higher crime rates, drug use, depression, suicide, etc.
Yes yes, we see all that with women that get pregnant just to get on the welfare payroll. Very sad.
But I caution you, you can say the same liabilities exist with keeping prisoners alive.
And I am sure you don't want to start eliminating them on that basis.
@kevcvs57 saidIm talking about the law that will charge me with manslaughter/murder for the loss of life the woman can take without any repercussions. The same life, that is two different standards for the same life.
Your obviously talking about a parent being denied the potential of the foetus to become a baby.
Just to be clear it’s the woman’s choice not that of the drunk driver or the trigger happy cop.
@earl-of-trumps saidIrrelevant. Those are women who obviously want to keep their pregnancy.
Yes yes, we see all that with women that get pregnant just to get on the welfare payroll. Very sad.
But I caution you, you can say the same liabilities exist with keeping prisoners alive.
And I am sure you don't want to start eliminating them on that basis.
Killing the unborn isn't the same as killing an adult. Even some conservatives make concessions for abortions where rape was involved, or the health of mother is in danger.
At the very least, late term abortions are murder.
That depends on the circumstance. There are times when a mother's health or even life is at risk and a late-term abortion must be performed. Is it "murder" in that situation? Most reasonable people would say no.
1 edit
@vivify saidI would say IMO, if the fetus is viable, then killing the unborn is the same.
Irrelevant. Those are women who obviously want to keep their pregnancy.
But I caution you, you can say the same liabilities exist with keeping prisoners alive.
And I am sure you don't want to start eliminating them on that basis.
Killing the unborn isn't the same as killing an adult. Even some conservatives make concessions for abortions where rape was involve ...[text shortened]... abortion must be performed. Is it "murder" in that situation? Most reasonable people would say no.
I can't buy that you have to kill the faetus to save the mother. If the health of the mother is involved, do a caesarian section.
