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@athousandyoung saidWhat does it say Thousand? We are all sitting at a table at Starbucks
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@averagejoe1 saidNo, you don't.
Is it? Dont walk away on this one. You will.
47.2% do NOT pay income tax . Source it!
Now, These new illegals will pay none. So add these people to our population, and redo the math, and we will see that the percentage flips, very soon.
A country where 51% pay no taxes means 49% support them.
Say ‘you got a point Joe. ‘
Or don’t, Marauder.
First, there are many types of taxes and the federal income tax is only one. I'm too tired to cite to the studies now, but basically taking all taxes into account in the US they are proportional (you can look up what that mean).
Second, anyone who works in the US pays taxes whatever their immigration status is.
So Joe, you're ignorant.
@no1marauder saidYou say I am ignorant, but we don't know why you say that? I said INCOME taxes and you drop down to lower levels as usual and talk about 'other kiinds of taxes'. Weak, man, really weak. I said Income taxes. Income taxes. You speak of gasoline taxes, sales taxes, etc, do you not? Why, did you do the diversion gambit.
No, you don't.
First, there are many types of taxes and the federal income tax is only one. I'm too tired to cite to the studies now, but basically taking all taxes into account in the US they are proportional (you can look up what that mean).
Second, anyone who works in the US pays taxes whatever their immigration status is.
So Joe, you're ignorant.
I said that 47% pay NO income taxes. My point is absolurely perfect, I win the point, so you change my post??????????????
So, it would follow that there will be MORE people who do not pay taxes. So, it would follow that it will not be long in USA years that there will be MORE people not paying taxes.
How bout you tell us what bodes for the USA when that happens? You ain't about to touch that one, because you will be showing your hand!!!🃏
@AverageJoe1
Oh, to get y'all up to speed, it is not a border bill, it is about aid to Ukraine etc. I have decided to not vote on it.
By the way, are y'all ready for Michelle??
@wildgrass said... Trump does want to fix the border problem, though, and thereby yuo can say that the average GOP voter and MAGA American want to do it.
Republicans have no actual plan or intention of solving any border issues.
Republicans have said this openly. They don't plan to write, approve, amend or even discuss any bill until after the election because they don't want to help Biden by doing their job.
Many things caused an increase in migration. Any of those causes can be addressed by Republicans in congress.
They go on TV and call it a crisis, blame this, blame that, then they go home and take a nap.
The thing is, though, is that they face the same situation that British conservatives face: they vote and yearn for Brexit but it is not implemented by politicians actually committed to that goal. They are elites who are just interested in ruling as conservatives but are actually horrified by what their constituents truly want at the bottom of their hearts.
@AverageJoe1
You are fukking DAFT BESIDES being stupid. BIDEN blocking the bill? You are being deliberately obtuse, your god king TRUMP is the one stopping the border bill and it WAS bipartisan whether you like it or not and Trump told the squeaker of the house Johnson to kill the bill because he doesn't want Biden to get credit for ANYTHING good going on so Johnson being a nice tame pet falls over and plays dead, bill now DOA.
You offend me deeply trying to pin this abortion on Biden.
THEY decided not to vote on it? You are in a fantasy world of your own stupid blindness. It was the SQUEAKER of the house Johnson who refuses to even let it COME to a vote you POS COMMIE.
@no1marauder saidWhat the heck is she talking about here? There hasn't been any immigration reform in 10-15 years anyway. It's now noticeably worse so arguably taking us back to 2014 is a good thing.
"“Everything that I’ve heard that’s in this bill is going to set immigration reform — real comprehensive immigration reform — back 10 or 15 years,” said Rep. Nanette Barragán (D-Calif.), the head of the Hispanic Caucus.
“If there was something in there like pathways [to citizenship] or Dreamers, that would be a very different conversation,” she continued. “But there w ...[text shortened]... ix the problem.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/31/biden-border-deal-progressives-00138687
What about this bill sets us back 10 years? Or is she just blowing steam?
@wildgrass saidOne provision sets back immigration reform 45 years:
What the heck is she talking about here? There hasn't been any immigration reform in 10-15 years anyway. It's now noticeably worse so arguably taking us back to 2014 is a good thing.
What about this bill sets us back 10 years? Or is she just blowing steam?
The bill would end the policy of giving hearings to asylum seekers who crossed besides official crossing points,
@no1marauder saidHold on, you are not going to get away with this one. I will out you with a fresh thread. What Am I Talking About?!? I wrote that 47.2% of us Do Not Pay Federal Income Taxes. Jesus. Can't you read!?!??
No, you don't.
First, there are many types of taxes and the federal income tax is only one. I'm too tired to cite to the studies now, but basically taking all taxes into account in the US they are proportional (you can look up what that mean).
Second, anyone who works in the US pays taxes whatever their immigration status is.
So Joe, you're ignorant.
So in your couched way, but not so secret to me, you write back in a wimpy liberal whiney 6th grade way....'"""Well, there are MANY types of taxes, and federal income tax is only one". And you follow on your high horse that you are 'too tired to cite the studies now.!!!"
This may be your most telling post of all.
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@AverageJoe1
Everyone, Marauder reminds me of Trump.....he is so exhausted with responding left and right to snowballs in his face that he has a few miscues along the way.
Here you see that Marauder himself has fallen to the same condition.
@no1marauder saidI don't know how progressive your point-of-view is here. Most Americans (73 % ) - including most Democrats - think that efforts to reduce unauthorized (illegal) border crossings is an important goal. Most Americans want to increase security on the southern border. Getting political refugees into the US the correct way, with documentation through official checkpoints, is clearly the better way to immigrate and should be encouraged. It's safer and simpler, less strain on the system. This bill would increase resources to help make that happen.
One provision sets back immigration reform 45 years:
The bill would end the policy of giving hearings to asylum seekers who crossed besides official crossing points,
Regarding the level of overall immigration, there's a legitimate progressive argument for reducing it to drive up wages. Books have been written by progressives arguing that high rates of immigration (especially the undocumented, who are not subject to minimum wage laws) is suppressing wages for low-income Americans and is a regressive economic policy.
Set reform back 45 years? That should have been a stop-gap policy, not permanent. It's not progress. Real progress would be fixing a policy that allows undocumented workers into the US to toil at slave labor wages.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/09/08/republicans-and-democrats-have-different-top-priorities-for-u-s-immigration-policy/
Good lord. It is NOT progressive to suggest we should let in all the immigrants that our capitalist system can support. Especially in cases of unauthorized crossings, the goal should be, and should always have been, to encourage entry through proper channels and with proper paperwork. Whatever marauder is arguing for appears to encourage the types of human trafficking across Mexico that is leading to death and suffering. That is insane.
Restricting immigration by whatever means will raise incomes for low-skill workers in America. Corporate america will suffer but wages will increase. Progress.
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The only important question left is whether Democrats have the political skills to make the argument. Republicans want the border broken, because they want a symbolic issue to run their campaigns on.
“I don’t know how you avoid the conclusion that [Republicans are] really not interested in solving the problem at the border. They’re interested in maintaining an electoral issue,” said Sen. Angus King (I-Maine). Yet, “it remains to be seen whether that can be communicated effectively.”
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@wildgrass saidYour economic ignorance is noted.
Good lord. It is NOT progressive to suggest we should let in all the immigrants that our capitalist system can support. Especially in cases of unauthorized crossings, the goal should be, and should always have been, to encourage entry through proper channels and with proper paperwork. Whatever marauder is arguing for appears to encourage the types of human trafficking acro ...[text shortened]... s for low-skill workers in America. Corporate america will suffer but wages will increase. Progress.
Right now, the US has an undersupply of workers and almost full employment. More workers are needed and virtually every economic analysis of immigration under such conditions leads to the conclusion that it is economically beneficial. That you are relying on remarks made under far different conditions (i.e. recession years with high unemployment) is rather pathetic.
I'm arguing for the law that has existed for 45 years while you are screeching right wing talking points lifted from Fox News and Newsmax.
@wildgrass saidYour poll is dated (August 2022) but still:
I don't know how progressive your point-of-view is here. Most Americans (73 % ) - including most Democrats - think that efforts to reduce unauthorized (illegal) border crossings is an important goal. Most Americans want to increase security on the southern border. Getting political refugees into the US the correct way, with documentation through official checkpoints, is cle ...[text shortened]... reads/2022/09/08/republicans-and-democrats-have-different-top-priorities-for-u-s-immigration-policy/
"Majorities of Americans also say taking in civilian refugees from countries where people are trying to escape violence and war (72% ) and allowing immigrants who came to the country illegally as children to remain in the U.S. and apply for legal status (72% ) should be important goals for the immigration system."
People trying to escape violence and war don't find it as easy to file proper paperwork as you suggest. The 1979 bill recognized this and allowed those seeking asylum to apply for it wherever and whenever they entered the US. This was a wise and humane policy and remains so today.
No progressive economist I know of today agrees with the proposition that you state under current economic conditions.
There is no policy espoused by progressives that allows employers to pay "slave labor wages". There is nothing in the bill that does anything to even address that problem. Granting an easier pathway to legal status and eventual citizenship would (a long time progressive position) but one Democrats did not even press for in this legislation.