18 Nov 04
Originally posted by rwingettAnd the capitalists will sit quietly and watch while their markets and customers disappear to 'alternative' means of production.
In order for socialism to advance, the legacy of Lenin will have to be completely eradicated first. Groups like the Shining Path in Peru and the FARC in Columbia are not carrying socialism forward. They are helping to keep it in a permanent state of retardation. Leninism/Stalinism/Maoism have done more harm to socialism than any amount of capitalist propoga ...[text shortened]... in society. Only then will you see the state "wither away" as the Leninists claimed it would.
Don't think so.
Simple fact is that, regardless of where the challenge to capitalism comes from - from co-op based organisations, Marxist/Leninist revolution or whatever, capitalism while fight back. They won't roll over - its going to be a struggle. We've already seen the lengths they'll go to to protect and expand their markets, so, with the greatest of respect, I don't see that they'll allow any other means of production to flourish. They've just too much to lose.
I wish it weren't so, but for capitalism to be got rid of, there's going to have to be a struggle of some sort. Most likely a series of struggles, in different forms, in different parts of the world. Some more violent than others, but struggles all the same.
18 Nov 04
Originally posted by rwingettI disagree, violence through force is how capitalism has now dominated the entire culture of the planet through globalization. Honestly, there is no country to run to that isn't capitalist if you don't like capitalism, it has got that bad. Basicly, if violence through force can work for them, and it has worked well, then I don't see how it cannot work for us.
In order for socialism to advance, the legacy of Lenin will have to be completely eradicated first. Groups like the Shining Path in Peru and the FARC in Columbia are not carrying socialism forward. They are helping to keep it in a permanent state of retardation. Leninism/Stalinism/Maoism have done more harm to socialism than any amount of capitalist propoga ...[text shortened]... in society. Only then will you see the state "wither away" as the Leninists claimed it would.
The only reason why, in fact, I am not waging war against the capitalist pigheads, is it is a bad strategic decision, we would simply LOSE, and socialism would be lost with it. We need to strenghten our political base, then when we have enough support, you could simply weed out the rest, that's essentially what capitalists have done the past 100 years.
Socialistic bases have improved in Europe, parts of Africa and a lot of South America, but I'm afraid the "world's superpower" views socialism as a "threat to freedom and unpatriotic" (yet they cannot explain why that is), this is a huge problem that I can find no easy solution. . .
18 Nov 04
Originally posted by RedmikeGood point, I overlooked that, a quote from a famous Chinese war philosopher, "It only takes one to make war".
And the capitalists will sit quietly and watch while their markets and customers disappear to 'alternative' means of production.
Don't think so.
Simple fact is that, regardless of where the challenge to capitalism comes from - from co-op based organisations, Marxist/Leninist revolution or whatever, capitalism while fight back. They won't roll over - it ...[text shortened]... rms, in different parts of the world. Some more violent than others, but struggles all the same.
Even if socialism can work through long and hard peaceful means, what makes you think the multi-millionaires will simply stand down? They have already proven that they are willing to sacrefice many people and all their morals to receive their power, I doubt they will simply fold. As much as us socialists hate war, the reality is, if socialism were to be acheived, we are going to have to fight in at least ONE war, and possibly more. I agree we shouldn't go out of our way to start wars, but if socialism ever becomes strong, a war is going to be declared against us, it's inevitable. The fact of the matter is, if socialism ever becomes powerful, the multi-millionaires and their gun hoes minions like slimjim and TexasCowboy are going to fight us, whether we want it or not. . .
18 Nov 04
Originally posted by mateulosetrust me ... if in a 2 or 300 years from now the world still exist everyone would be a soccialist. since soccialist are very proggressive and all humans have done is "progress"...
I disagree, violence through force is how capitalism has now dominated the entire culture of the planet through globalization. Honestly, there is no country to run to that isn't capitalist if you don't like capitalism, it has got that bad. Basicly, if violence through force can work for them, and it has worked well, then I don't see how it cannot work f ...[text shortened]... t they cannot explain why that is), this is a huge problem that I can find no easy solution. . .
maybe there are some conservatives but they will only slow thing down but not stop it.
18 Nov 04
Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboardI honestly don't have the awnser for that, I would like to think humanity would progressively progress throughout time, but there are cases throughout history were we have taken steps backwards, such as the medieval ages when we put church influence into politics. (Does this ring any alarm bells?)
trust me ... if in a 2 or 300 years from now the world still exist everyone would be a soccialist. since soccialist are very proggressive and all humans have done is "progress"...
maybe there are some conservatives but they will only slow thing down but not stop it.
Some countries, I feel progress is being made, other countries, like the USA, however, I feel they want to go back to the way things were 100 years ago. There's just no way that can be counted on as progress.
Also, it's important to note, most progression has come through wars, what would happen to humanity if we simply let Nazi Germany do it's thing? Case in point, the multi-millionaires and slimjim's will only go out fighting, at some point in time, the people will have to face them, and there will be a war.
I would like to be obtimistic and hope these millionaires become "enlightened", and give away all their money to charity and surrender their power, but we all know that will never happen. The multi-millionaires are simply dug too deep. . .
18 Nov 04
Originally posted by VILmausoleumThere must be a better system of HUMAN BEHAVIOUR if any proven system is to be replaced.
made you look!
The mistake that other monetary systems make is a failure to identify valid human characteristics and take them into account.
Greed. Socialism is doomed by it. Because? Every human has it. We are gentically predisposed to "Generocity and Benevelence" ONLY TO OUR KIN.
Screw everyone else.
Socialism fails to recognize this. Those who will gain from redistribution are for it as in "greed". Those who will lose from it are against it as in "greed".
The best that can be hoped for is a system that allows the maximum generation of wealth utilizing greed, ie, "capitalism", then figures out ways of using the wealth to better the lives of others.
Pretty much just like the biggest supporter of the weak and oppressed on earth do. The Americans.
18 Nov 04
Originally posted by StarValleyWyThere we go with the "greed is human nature" theory, listen dude, I already discredited that theory several times. Greed has become human CULTURE, not nature, in fact, the theory of "greed is human nature" is some self-fufilling silly prophecy that leads us to beleive it is so, when it is not. . . Congrats, you little sheep, BAH, BAH, BAHHHHHHH!
There must be a better system of HUMAN BEHAVIOUR if any proven system is to be replaced.
The mistake that other monetary systems make is a failure to identify valid human characteristics and take them into account.
Greed. Socialism is doomed by it. Because? Every human has it. We are gentically predisposed to "Generocity and Benevelence" ONLY TO ...[text shortened]... retty much just like the biggest supporter of the weak and oppressed on earth do. The Americans.
18 Nov 04
1 edit
Bathing prevents illness. This is why we bathe. The idea that we'd be less sick if we didn't bathe due to improved immunse systems is ridiculous.
I don't think I understand socialism, because people keep telling me it works. If people could not work and live off the public dole, are you telling me people would work anyway? I don't buy it. If talented people could work half assed and get the same out of it they would if they worked their butts off, are you telling me they wouldn't do a half asses job? That's why socialism doesn't work. It rewards those who fail to produce. Capitalism rewards those who succeed in producing.
Now capitalism also rewards those who know how to play the system, but socialism does too.
18 Nov 04
Originally posted by AThousandYoungWell, in capitalism, a lot of talented ppl are already doing half-ass efforts and guess what? They become multi-millionaires! So your argument that the talented will only do half-butt work during socialism is unfounded, because that's already happening under capitalism already, and that system is rewarding them heavily over everyone else despite such laziness.
Bathing prevents illness. This is why we bathe. The idea that we'd be less sick if we didn't bathe due to improved immunse systems is ridiculous.
I don't think I understand socialism, because people keep telling me it works. If people could not work and live off the public dole, are you telling me people would work anyway? I don't buy it. I ...[text shortened]... g.
Now capitalism also rewards those who know how to play the system, but socialism does too.
18 Nov 04
Originally posted by mateuloseYou see your problem? You have discredited a universal truth. Does that make sense?
There we go with the "greed is human nature" theory, listen dude, I already discredited that theory several times. Greed has become human CULTURE, not nature, in fact, the theory of "greed is human nature" is some self-fufilling silly prophecy that leads us to beleive it is so, when it is not. . . Congrats, you little sheep, BAH, BAH, BAHHHHHHH!
You can try all you want and you will never make mammalian beasts stop trying to kill the children of their competitors. Sorry. It's nature.
Neither will you overcome our laziness with laws.
As to sheep. Hell. I eat them. Are we what we eat?
18 Nov 04
Originally posted by mateuloseYou have outdone yourself here. So two attempts at proving a negative statement, if mangled by a commie mind, can prove a totally unrelated statement?
Well, in capitalism, a lot of talented ppl are already doing half-ass efforts and guess what? They become multi-millionaires! So your argument that the talented will only do half-butt work during socialism is unfounded, because that's already happening under capitalism already, and that system is rewarding them heavily over everyone else despite such laziness.
Way to go dude/dudette! As the case may be.
18 Nov 04
Originally posted by StarValleyWyListen dude, it's my choice, basicly if you are not succeeding in a said system, you have two choices:
For Girly Men?
Or for those of us who MADE it work?
A) Fight the system opressing you
or B) Work very hard to mold yourself in the system, pretend you like it, surrendering the artist that you are, and simply try your best in a system that doesn't suit you, or has much of any conditions for you to succeed given who you are as a human being and or personality.
Most, unfortunenately in my shoes, pick B and accept the fact they will be working at McDonald's the rest of their lives living meagir paycheck to paycheck, paying rent, and consequently not having anything to show for their work, living a life of uselessness. If you refuse to accept B, you sometimes get locked in a mental institution, but that is another story for another time. I choose option A, because option B is simply for cowards too afraid to fight for their own greatness, I will never, ever, shall be slaved by picking option B, so go f*** yourself you capitalist pigheads... (mods, plz don't delete)
18 Nov 04
2 edits
Originally posted by mateuloseIt never occurs to you that the way to fight the oppressors is to beat them at their own game? Outproduce them. That will make you rich and put them into poverty.
Listen dude, it's my choice, basicly if you are not succeeding in a said system, you have two choices:
A) Fight the system opressing you
or B) Work very hard to mold yourself in the system, pretend you like it, surrendering the art ...[text shortened]... f*** yourself you capitalist pigheads... (mods, plz don't delete)
What I meant by "Girly Men" are those who rage against the terrible "they" their entire lives. Never daring to risk anything except getting caught throwing gas bottles into the homes of Jews and Americans.