Originally posted by Metal BrainSo you are in favor of more of a capital punishment type of system except when it comes to convicting the wrong person? Does this generate enough apprehension to oppose capital punishment?
[ I don't have a problem with an eye for an eye as long as they confess or it is proven in an iron clad way. It is the wrongly convicted I am concerned about.[/b]
I will say that such a system is scarier in the hands of a corrupt court or even an inept one. For example, suppose "the powers that be" want to do away with certain people? I suppose it would be easier to do with such a system.
I guess the way I feel about the whole thing can be compared to how children should be taught. On the one hand, you have the wacked out liberal left who thinks that spanking children is child abuse. Then you have the wacked out conservative right who use spanking in an abusive manner and think that it is corrective. Really any form of punishment can be turned into "abuse" depending on how its employed or it can be used effectively to correct an individual. In addition, not every form of punishment is corrective as we see in permissive societies that do not properly punish wrong doers. It seems to me that one must learn to reach a happy medium and the country in which I live seems to swing to the side of punishment that is permissive. Societies around the world seem to swing towards to dysfunctional extremes which are either permissiveness or to abusive. They rarely seem to find a happy medium. I guess an example of abusive societies would include countries like Iran who torture their citizens for certain crimes.
Well, you must understand the main motivation of crime (at least for crimes that are financially motivated) is jealousy and lack of oppurtunity. Redistrubution of wealth and universally accessible education lower crime significantly. There is, of course, a deterrent effect from prison sentences, but prevention is a lot more effective.
Originally posted by whodeyAh, good old child molesters again, coming back every time prisons are discussed! It's easy to verify emperically that child molesters have a very high chance to fall back into their old "habit". Therefore I suggest to give them the option of a life sentence or (chemical) castration after their second offence.
Yes, specifically the prison model in the US, but go ahead and include other countries with similar systems.
So sentences are too long? How about child molesters who get next to no time if at all? I think you are only focusing on cannabis sentences or other drug related crimes, or am I reading you wrong?
Originally posted by KazetNagorraAt least they drive slowly past schools.
Ah, good old child molesters again, coming back every time prisons are discussed! It's easy to verify emperically that child molesters have a very high chance to fall back into their old "habit". Therefore I suggest to give them the option of a life sentence or (chemical) castration after their second offence.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraSo is this why Madoff made off with all that money in his ponzi scheme? Some of the most honest people I know have been the poorest. In fact, I have seen studies which suggest that wealth causes you to be a lousy tipper and less charitable. White color crime has forced capitalism to its knees, not those trying to attain wealth. In short, you can always make excuses for being immoral, however, as a society do we hold these people accountable (golden parachute)? Also, do you think that losing a hand or arm when stealing would be a better deterrant? If nothing else, it would make stealing a little harder as well as a possible warning to others of your past behavior.
Well, you must understand the main motivation of crime (at least for crimes that are financially motivated) is jealousy and lack of oppurtunity. Redistrubution of wealth and universally accessible education lower crime significantly. There is, of course, a deterrent effect from prison sentences, but prevention is a lot more effective.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraCastration? In a society that can't even bear to spank their children do you really think such barbarism will be embraced? 😛
Ah, good old child molesters again, coming back every time prisons are discussed! It's easy to verify emperically that child molesters have a very high chance to fall back into their old "habit". Therefore I suggest to give them the option of a life sentence or (chemical) castration after their second offence.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraI see, we should pay people not to steal from us and commit crimes against us.
Well, you must understand the main motivation of crime (at least for crimes that are financially motivated) is jealousy and lack of oppurtunity. Redistrubution of wealth and universally accessible education lower crime significantly. There is, of course, a deterrent effect from prison sentences, but prevention is a lot more effective.
Yes, the mafia is a bit more upfront about their extortion.
Originally posted by WajomaI say we continue to let government steal from us as we slip slower and slower into a state of slavery. Then when society is all poor and "honest" and paying our "fair" share we can storm the castle with pitch forks!!
I see, we should pay people not to steal from us and commit crimes against us.
Yes, the mafia is a bit more upfront about their extortion.
Originally posted by mbakuninPunishment?
the first question that should be asked is: what is the point of prison? punishment or rehabilitation? in my opinion it is rehabilitation, in which case most penal systems in the world fall far short, and should be reformed.
Rehabilitation?
I can think of another reason.
To protect us from them. To protect those that recognise your right to life, liberty and property from those that do not recognise what a right is. KN should be locked up.
Before the concept of putting people in prison came along in the 1800's, some kind of horrible physical punishment was inflicted on a wrongdoer. Repeat offenders were simply hung if they had become a nuisance.
I would favor a return to that process. Why spend a fortune keeping someone in a cell for decades? If you think it sounds primitive or barbaric, how is it any worse than sticking someone in a cage until their entire life has passed and letting them go when they're senior citizens?
Originally posted by Sam The ShamThey don't because the prison system is over crowded. Odds are that you will be out again in no time at all.
Before the concept of putting people in prison came along in the 1800's, some kind of horrible physical punishment was inflicted on a wrongdoer. Repeat offenders were simply hung if they had become a nuisance.
I would favor a return to that process. Why spend a fortune keeping someone in a cell for decades? If you think it sounds primitive or barbari ...[text shortened]... n a cage until their entire life has passed and letting them go when they're senior citizens?
Originally posted by KazetNagorracastration? are you kidding me?
Ah, good old child molesters again, coming back every time prisons are discussed! It's easy to verify emperically that child molesters have a very high chance to fall back into their old "habit". Therefore I suggest to give them the option of a life sentence or (chemical) castration after their second offence.
I'd say they be shot by a firing squad.
In fact, I think all people who got life sentences should be shot by firing squads, they won't get out anyway.
Originally posted by whodeyWhite collar crime is a different story and depends mostly on having enough checks and balances in the system. I was talking mostly about the more visible petty crime, like robbery.
So is this why Madoff made off with all that money in his ponzi scheme? Some of the most honest people I know have been the poorest. In fact, I have seen studies which suggest that wealth causes you to be a lousy tipper and less charitable. White color crime has forced capitalism to its knees, not those trying to attain wealth. In short, you can always ma ...[text shortened]... uld make stealing a little harder as well as a possible warning to others of your past behavior.
As for losing arms: I don't think societies that implement this sort of punishment have lower crime rates.