The modern day prison system

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Ha! I met a cokehead the other night. She was a skank whose "boyfriend" and the "boyfriend's" "girlfriend" beat her up and kicked her out of her apartment. She was on the street and trying to catch a ride so that some guy she knew would give her some money for a half hour's work of some undisclosed kind so she could get a room for the night.

Pret ...[text shortened]... offered herself to me but I didn't go for it...

Not all coke users are upper class!

Of course there are poor people who use coke, but since it's expensive it's also popular amongst higher social classes.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Because some people are just born insane.

What do you mean: insane? If you mean insane due to a genetic disorder
they need care and help dealing with it so it never gets out of hand. If
you're talking about perfectly healthy people (physically) being destructive
to themselves and/or their surrounding, then it can be avoided.

I wouldn't even call it an idealistic attitude, but a realistic one.

Originally posted by Jigtie
What do you mean: insane? If you mean insane due to a genetic disorder
they need care and help dealing with it so it never gets out of hand. If
you're talking about perfectly healthy people (physically) being destructive
to themselves and/or their surrounding, then it can be avoided.

I wouldn't even call it an idealistic attitude, but a realistic one.

The problem is such a "genetic disorder" may not always be apparent to the surroundings.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Because some people are just born insane.

You say "insane" as if it's a bad thing.

GRANNY.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
How can we not?!

Strangely, There seems to be an anal rape obsession with some people here.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
The problem is such a "genetic disorder" may not always be apparent to the surroundings.

It will be once the victims start popping up.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
I guess cannabis does cause a few traffic related deaths per year, but that's a mere fraction of alcohol-related deaths.

I doubt there is convincing evidence that cannabis causes traffic related deaths. Sure, people who smoke cannabis cause some traffic related deaths. So do people who are not on any drugs.

If cannabis smokers cause more traffic deaths than sober people you are right. I just thought I'd point out that statistics can be misleading. It is a common tactic that anti cannabis fanatics use. They have said that cannabis increases the risk of lung cancer for years and they still have no evidence to support that claim.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Well, you must understand the main motivation of crime (at least for crimes that are financially motivated) is jealousy and lack of oppurtunity. Redistrubution of wealth and universally accessible education lower crime significantly. There is, of course, a deterrent effect from prison sentences, but prevention is a lot more effective.

So Bill Gates should then give 10 bucks to every man and woman on the planet and everything is all of a sudden better?

Originally posted by sonhouse
So Bill Gates should then give 10 bucks to every man and woman on the planet and everything is all of a sudden better?

I doubt it.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Well, you must understand the main motivation of crime (at least for crimes that are financially motivated) is jealousy and lack of oppurtunity. Redistrubution of wealth and universally accessible education lower crime significantly. There is, of course, a deterrent effect from prison sentences, but prevention is a lot more effective.

Redistribution of wealth is a financially motivated crime motivated by jealously.

Originally posted by Jigtie
I honestly believe that any nutsack you put forth as an example of
incomprehensible brutality (Albert Fish, Diane Downs, Alfred Hitler, Aileen
Wuornos, George W. Bush and so on and so forth) was made that way
through circumstances perfectly avoidable in a better society. Exactly what
that society would be, I have no idea, but I suspect it would have t ...[text shortened]... le lot more tolerance, much less greed and an extremely limited
power given to the tiny elite.

You seem to be leaving out the fact that the aforementioned nutsack had the freedom to choose to do the the right thing regardless of circumstances. A "better society" would be one in which more people did so. Your vision seems Utopian and impractical to me.

Let's say you catch 6 year old Johnny shoplifting a candy bar from the store. What do you tell him? Do you tell him this?

"I understand why you took that candy bar Johnny. After all you really wanted it, and if society were only better you would have already had one."

Hell no.

You tell him not to steal because stealing is wrong. It is not the moral thing to do. And then you make him apologize to the store owner and take away some privilege that is dear to him (like eating candy) for a month or two so he will make the right choice in the future. That's the practical way to a better society. Just think if KazetNagorra had been raised this way. Maybe he would stop trying to redistribute everyone's candy bars.

Originally posted by Sleepyguy
You seem to be leaving out the fact that the aforementioned nutsack had the freedom to choose to do the the right thing regardless of circumstances. A "better society" would be one in which more people did so. Your vision seems Utopian and impractical to me.

Let's say you catch 6 year old Johnny shoplifting a candy bar from the store. What do you tel ...[text shortened]... been raised this way. Maybe he would stop trying to redistribute everyone's candy bars.

I don't think I implied that we should teach the young to disrespect the law.
More like giving them more incentive to follow it.

Originally posted by Jigtie
I don't think I implied that we should teach the young to disrespect the law.
More like giving them more incentive to follow it.

By saying that people who do bad things were "made that way" by a flawed society, it seems to me you are absolving those people of any responsibility for the choices they made. And to be clear, I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about right and wrong. Stealing candy bars will still be wrong even if politicians make it legal.

Originally posted by Sleepyguy
By saying that people who do bad things were "made that way" by a flawed society, it seems to me you are absolving those people of any responsibility for the choices they made. And to be clear, I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about right and wrong. Stealing candy bars will still be wrong even if politicians make it legal.

I'm saying that the need for a penal system is the result of societal
flaws. I'm not saying that criminals aren't accountable for their actions,
though I do believe that many criminals (possibly the vast majority of
them) are given options of such poor quality that there's little else for
them to do.

You can't strip the bear naked and expect it to be happy with that; tell
the bear that: hey, if you want fur, go work almost every hour of your
waking day and we'll give you just enough to cover yourself during the
cold night. Those aren't real options. If you're a big, strong and smart
bear, you will give your tormentors the finger and take what you need. If
you win, great! If you lose, you'll stay in squalor. So you really got
nothing to lose.

In a "better society", people wouldn't be pushed so hard and we would
learn to tolerate (if not accept) everyone not violent. And (guessing) I'm
willing to bet that you'll find very few violent people in such a society.
Aggression often comes from being stressed out, alienated and/or
having to worry about the future and your social position a lot.

So, the goal is simple. Find a system that suites everybody to such a
degree that there's no need for anyone to break any laws, and crimes
will be reduced to a manageable amount.

I'll leave that to someone with extraordinary brain power.

Originally posted by Sleepyguy
Redistribution of wealth is a financially motivated crime motivated by jealously.

No, it's an economically motivated policy motivated by reason.