26 Jan 06
Originally posted by ivanhoeFor a terrorist organisation (hopefully former) to word its charter so that it can mean something peaceful is in my opinion admirable. Chances are that someone had the foresight to see that one day their political aspirations will bear fruit. I can see that there is a possibility that Hamas can decide to resturcture its goals and place the'destuction of Israel' at the bottom of the list.
Rajk: " .....'enemy can by confronted, not necessarily by war"
What are the other, non-violent ways, Hamas uses to "confront the enemy" ?
The answer to your question is that I cannot remember them being involved in any peaceful negotiations. Could it be that that was the job of the PLO in recent times ? Hamas had a different mission.
26 Jan 06
Originally posted by shavixmirWhere are the European anti-fascist lefties when you need them ?
Such a constructive attitude Ivanhoe.
I'm sure your sort will make the world a better place.
They are smoking skunk, doing paddo's, discussing their wishes that cannabis needs to be legalised and siding with those they once claimed they would fight.
26 Jan 06
Originally posted by ivanhoeYou are a hopeless case man.
Where are the European anti-fascist lefties when you need them ?
They are smoking skunk, doing paddo's, discussing their wishes that cannabis needs to be legalised and siding with those they once claimed they would fight.
Friction causes friction. You need to get people around a table and talk.
26 Jan 06
4 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999I advise you to read the Charter.
For a terrorist organisation (hopefully former) to word its charter so that it can mean something peaceful is in my opinion admirable. Chances are that someone had the foresight to see that one day their political aspirations will bear fruit. I can see that there is a possibility that Hamas can decide to resturcture its goals and place the'destuction of Isra Could it be that that was the job of the PLO in recent times ? Hamas had a different mission.
Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
( " ............. " )
But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility..
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
26 Jan 06
Originally posted by shavixmirWhy don't you check out the site reference ivanhoe mentioned?
Such a constructive attitude Ivanhoe.
I'm sure your sort will make the world a better place.
You might find it difficult to be so optimistically constructive when confronted with the truth.
There are very good reasons why Hamas exists as an inevitability; given the history of their people and Israel. But this does not make their policy conclusions correct, nor do they have the moral imperative one they try to legitamise institutionalised violece like Israel does with it's state terrorism.
I refer you to my thread: 'the root of all evil' discussing systematised as opposed to individual evils.
26 Jan 06
Originally posted by ivanhoeThat was written 17 years ago. HAMAS is presently observing a cease fire, something their charter expressly rejects. Times change dude, lighten up. Besides they are the elected representatives of the Palestinian people; do you want to exterminate all the Palestinians as "Islamo-fascists"?
I advise you to read the Charter.
Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
( " ............. " )
But the I ...[text shortened]... proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility..[/i]
26 Jan 06
3 edits
Originally posted by shavixmirI agree. Read article 13 of the Hamas Charter and you'll see what Hamas thinks of your proposal.
Friction causes friction. You need to get people around a table and talk.
"[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement."
( " .............. " )
"There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad."
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
The concrete consequense of the above Hamas stance is that there will be no peace negotiations if Hamas will form the Palestinian government. The so called "Roadmap to Peace" will be a worthless piece of paper for a long long time to come.
26 Jan 06
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeStill love it..
I advise you to read the Charter.
Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
( " ............. " )
But the ...[text shortened]... n exercise in futility..[/i]
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html[/b]
The issue here is the unlawful existence of your West's Israel, my Holy
Land's cancer. Remove it, and you and all your cronies will live in peace.
You seem to read a fair bit, I'll give you that. But what you seem to lack
of, is simple understanding. I have the feeling you know of the History of
Palestine, back from 1917 till the current day. What do you think of it?
Do you agree on the crimes committed by the British, the US and the
Zionists on these lands?
I wouldn't be surprised. But I tell you this, whatever brings my Palestine
and my Jerusalem back am happy with.
26 Jan 06
Originally posted by ivanhoeWell .. I agree with you but it is the hope that responsibility and authority now placed in their hands will change things.
I advise you to read the Charter.
Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
( " ............. " )
But the ...[text shortened]... n exercise in futility..[/i]
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html[/b]
If not .. then this is the doomsday scenario predicted by some Christians. Hamas provokes Israel and the response is extreme, surroiunding muslim states move in to end the bloodshed etc etc. Have not turn on the tv yet but I can just imagine what the televangalists saying.
26 Jan 06
1 edit
Originally posted by PeachyPeachy: "The issue here is the unlawful existence of your West's Israel, my Holy
Still love it..
The issue here is the unlawful existence of your West's Israel, my Holy
Land's cancer. Remove it, and you and all your cronies will live in peace.
You seem to read a fair bit, I'll give you that. But what you seem to lack
of, is simple understanding. I have the feeling you know of the History of
Palestine, back from 1917 till the ed. But I tell you this, whatever brings my Palestine
and my Jerusalem back am happy with.
Land's cancer. Remove it, and you and all your cronies will live in peace."
If you believe this you have no understanding whatsoever of the global conflict which is now taking shape.
You are blinded by Hamas's promises. They are political criminals same as their ideological allies, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Iran and Syria.
Peachy: "I have the feeling you know of the History of
Palestine, back from 1917 till the current day. What do you think of it?"
Looking at the past we must realise not to become revanchists. We should not adopt an attitude of resentment but we should work towards peace. The two-state solution is worth while advocating and implementing.
Peachy: " But I tell you this, whatever brings my Palestine
and my Jerusalem back am happy with."
War will not bring anything back, on the contrary.
26 Jan 06
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeAre you for real??!!
[b]Peachy: "The issue here is the unlawful existence of your West's Israel, my Holy
Land's cancer. Remove it, and you and all your cronies will live in peace."
If you believe this you have no understanding whatsoever of the global conflict which is now taking shape.
You are blinded by Hamas's promises. They are political criminals same as their i erusalem back am happy with."[/b]
War will not bring anything back, on the contrary.[/b]
Edit; there thats my Palestine.. on Earth.. the avatar was updated
just for you and all the aliens visiting this planet..
Now go back to you galaxy.
27 Jan 06
From Pakistan's "pro-Western" "President" Musharraf:
Pakistan’s Musharraf said taking responsibility for the development and security of the Palestinians would challenge Hamas to change.
He said the world’s response should be: “Don’t shut the door on Hamas, let us evaluate what their attitudes are and let’s put pressure on them to behave in the right manner.
“An equal amount of pressure will have to be put on the other side, on Israel. While one accepts the reality of Israel, we have to accept the reality of the creation of a Palestinian homeland. And let’s give Hamas a chance.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11046430/page/2/
He calls for an "equal amount of pressure" on Israel, something which has not been mentioned by Western leaders. Hamas is currently observing a cease-fire and has been for almost a year. It's a little catchy, ain't it: "All we are sayyyyyyyyying is, is give Hamas a chance ............"
27 Jan 06
1 edit
Originally posted by PeachySounds like they bought the election to me!
I live in the UK, but have relatives there.
From the start, Hamas proved itself by listening to its people and fulfilling
their needs. It built schools, hospitals, mosques...
Its work for the community is endless.
That's ok it's easy to criticise from the outside and throw a little bit of cash arround. Now that they are in power they will be responsible for the economy, housing shortages, education, poverty, unemployment, and the peace process. I hope all the bleading hearts on here hold their feet to the fire the same as they hold the US's feet to the fire, or will the double standard still apply?
GV
27 Jan 06
Originally posted by PeachyAs long as it continues to do these positive things for their community and work with Israel to establish peace, all will be well; after all my mother said Mussolini provided her with shoe and straightened out the transportation system in Italy in the 30s. Hitler made Germany the idel model of economic reform.....and look what happened...hope Hamas achieves its goals in a bloodless way.....
I live in the UK, but have relatives there.
From the start, Hamas proved itself by listening to its people and fulfilling
their needs. It built schools, hospitals, mosques...
Its work for the community is endless.