27 Jan 06
Originally posted by chancremechanicYes ...every picture or television shot I see, there are all these people with RPG's and assault rifles with fists up in the air.
As long as it continues to do these positive things for their community and work with Israel to establish peace, all will be well; after all my mother said Mussolini provided her with shoe and straightened out the transportation system in Italy in the 30s. Hitler made Germany the idel model of economic reform.....and look what happened...hope Hamas achieves its goals in a bloodless way.....
Hamas looks like a peaceful bunch to me.
27 Jan 06
But why would HAMAS renounce violence and recognise israel, even if they wanted to? What would they gain? Has israel something to offer which wasn't on the table before?
The Fatah faction has been down this road - recognising israel, renouncing violence, even trying to rein in Hamas and the Intifada.
And where did this get them?
We still have israeli helicopters, bulldozers, tanks and troops all over Palestine.
27 Jan 06
If Hamas as an institution takes the political road, more than likely there will be internal forces trying to splinter it and those who want the war to continue will take the role Hamas represented up until now.
Hamas needs to be supported if they choose the political road, but they must make the choice clearly. A change in their charter would be an interesting starting point, an indication (for all it's worth) that they want to follow that road and that this can be a major breakthrough.
27 Jan 06
4 edits
Originally posted by Redmikebecause at any one instant along any probable timeline someone or some party or some group has to say, that was our watershed moment and lets move on to a civil society.
But why would HAMAS renounce violence and recognise israel, even if they wanted to? What would they gain? Has israel something to offer which wasn't on the table before?.
however righteous the cause or obvious the parallels the greater world community will not accept any government codifying into its agenda the anhialation of another group.
all i can say that the ira after years of similar wrangling and rhetoric faced the incontrovertable evidence that the broader civil society will not validate a group that constantly threatens or purports no control or public censure over the sponataneous acts of violence perpetrated by its members.
it really is the flip side of the american free speach argument If you allow one country to constantly sabre rattle and continuously propose ethnic or racial violence, then the group that consistently gets caught out in the round of musical chairs when a peace has just been brokered, and are seen to be the only ones still threatening violence if their demands are not met, they are the ones that will be targeted as being the cause of the ongoing violence.
just ask a psych patient who has been scheduled by the mental health act if they think they should be incarcerated, but usually the very vehemence of their declarations of unfair imprisonment are generally seen as proof positive that they require restraint and are not fit for to be left under their own recognisance.
27 Jan 06
Originally posted by no1marauderHmmm...I read that it was said they have no intention of changing
That was written 17 years ago. HAMAS is presently observing a cease fire, something their charter expressly rejects. Times change dude, lighten up. Besides they are the elected representatives of the Palestinian people; do you want to exterminate all the Palestinians as "Islamo-fascists"?
their charter, but I am adopting a wait and see attitude.
27 Jan 06
Originally posted by no1marauderYes it does matter!
Is it of any importance what their charter says? Isn't it a lot more important what they do?
You are one of those that talks about violence creating more violence. Their charter describes how they do business and right now it calls for the destruction of a people and it's nation. Now that Hamas is in power I would hope that you will hold them to the same standards that you hold the US to.
GV
27 Jan 06
1 edit
Originally posted by Nighthawk62A) You'll never find a post from me saying "violence creates violence" (except tongue in cheek)- I am not a pacifist and accept that sometimes violence and even war are necessary;
Yes it does matter!
You are one of those that talks about violence creating more violence. Their charter describes how they do business and right now it calls for the destruction of a people and it's nation. Now that Hamas is in power I would hope that you will hold them to the same standards that you hold the US to.
GV
B) I hold Hamas to the same standard as the Republican party; I don't care what either says in their charter/platform; I only care what they do.
27 Jan 06
2 edits
Originally posted by PeachyCool! And there I was worried that there might be an end to war! Saved! Thank god I'm saved from peace and all the crappy little peace mongers that come out of the woodwork when times "aren't interesting".
HAMAS Won.
svw impersonates old NostraDamus...
In that year when the cattle are killed by the frost and early crops fail will come a flood of violence and a war that takes mother from child and father from wife. And then there will come great clouds of fire over the land of the ancients, especially those who spoke for God. All will be as night for thirty days and nights and then will arise a great pestilence.
end of stupid imitation prophecy...
So beware what you are so gleeful to embrace. People who vow destruction of others often get their ass handed to them on a platter. Especially the weak and weak minded.
28 Jan 06
Originally posted by StarValleyWyI find it very interesting that not only Hamas won the elections by 73% of
Cool! And there I was worried that there might be an end to war! Saved! Thank god I'm saved from peace and all the crappy little peace mongers that come out of the woodwork when times "aren't interesting".
svw impersonates old NostraDamus...
In that year when the cattle are killed by the frost and early crops fail will come a flood of violence a ...[text shortened]... others often get their ass handed to them on a platter. Especially the weak and weak minded.
the votes, but the fact that 5% of the winning votes were by Arab Christians
and Jews.
Proving solidarity, fighting corruption and the strong determination to stand
against the Zionist oppression.
Weak and weak-minded? I don't think so Einstein.
28 Jan 06
Originally posted by PeachyYou seem to be gloating. As if Palestine has just conquered Israel and is about to prosequte the entire Jewish nation to death.
Still love it..
The issue here is the unlawful existence of your West's Israel, my Holy
Land's cancer. Remove it, and you and all your cronies will live in peace.
You seem to read a fair bit, I'll give you that. But what you seem to lack
of, is simple understanding. I have the feeling you know of the History of
Palestine, back from 1917 till the ...[text shortened]... ed. But I tell you this, whatever brings my Palestine
and my Jerusalem back am happy with.
Keep gloating, you ignorant, greedy anti-semite. Keep gloating while you sit in England knowing absolutly nothing of what is hapenning.
What are you so happy about anyways?
Yes, the Hamas did win. But I don't really believe they will do anything. For starters, Abu Mazen is still leading Palestine, and he is from the Phatah.
Let me tell you something Peachy, Israel, or as you call us "cancer" will NEVER be removed for the holy land. And you are god damn lucky that you and you're relatives won't be either. Jews controls every aspect of the life in Israel. Arabs are living in Israel because we LET you. But that isn't enough. So we start the "Hitnatkut", giving away worthy land to the Arabs. Kicking Jews from their homes which they built and live in their entire life. Why? just to get one step closer to peace.
Is this enough? of course not. The Arabs want it all! the gaza strip isn't enough, You want Jerusalem as well!!
Well, just keep wanting. Israel is a strong nation. Much stronger then all the pathetic Arab nations around us. Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan so many places for the Arabs to live peacfully in. But they keep wanting the scrap of land we are left with. But they will never get it. And they will never attack us because they are afraid.
So listen Peachy,
tell your relatives, who are probably living in some tent with 15 little bastard children, to be THANKFULL that Israel are keeping them alive. Tell them that if they want Jerusalem, they should come and get it. Instead of talking and hiding all day long.
YOU ______ PISSED ME OFF LOSER
28 Jan 06
Originally posted by Faith No MoreOh my oh my.. You have a fantastic debating attitude, I must say..
You seem to be gloating. As if Palestine has just conquered Israel and is about to prosequte the entire Jewish nation to death.
Keep gloating, you ignorant, greedy anti-semite. Keep gloating while you sit in England knowing absolutly nothing of what is hapenning.
What are you so happy about anyways?
Yes, the Hamas did win. But I don't really ...[text shortened]... it. Instead of talking and hiding all day long.
YOU ______ PISSED ME OFF LOSER
Two things in reply to your miserable post;
1, Don't label us as anti-semite. Got nothing against the Jews, in fact two of
my mates are. We have an issue with the Zionists, do you get it Zionist?
2, Yes, I am damn happy, not only as Hamas won. Also because I
unintentionally managed to piss you off.