@vivify
Also, 70% of doctors that said "no", have been shaped by years of liability avoidance.
So what are you saying? That doctors from your own source who don't support your argument aren't thinking objectively? With all due respect, aren't you now the one letting bias cloud your thinking?
I suggest that many doctors are heavily constrained by liability avoidance. We live in a country where we put warnings on superman consumes explaining to people that the suit won't enable them to fly. I'm not the one accusing Trump of being an idiot for taking HC. I'm not telling you you should take HC, nor am I saying you shouldn't. I'm saying that with what we know, there is not reason to accuse anyone of being stupid if they take HC preventatively. I think the bar is very low for me to make that assertion. If you are saying Trump is being stupid, you need to prove doctor's AREN'T risk adverse. I'm saying Trump is not being stupid. I don't need to prove anything for that.
@techsouth saidI agree there are instances where Trump gets attacked no matter what he does; but that's completely due to years of Trump's own corrupt and bigoted behavior. Note he left travel open from the U.K. despite that region having the highest cases and deaths from the pandemic. He eventually closed travel after public scrutiny.
Trump closed the border with China when almost all the media accused him of being motivated solely by racism. Perhaps we could have gotten ahead of things had the government took extreme measures. But if you're honest, you'll have to admit that Trump would have been accused of being a dictator and they probably would have drawn up more impeachment articles if he'd done anything more extreme.
Even so, regardless of Trump's true feelings on suspending travel from China, Trump detractors displayed bad judgement in attacking an otherwise logical decision.
@vivify
In fact, Fox News pushed an anti-coronavirus conspiracy that lead to actual coronavirus deniers:
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/coronavirus-deniers-take-aim-hospitals-pandemic-grows-n1172336
I've spent time on conservative groups arguing with conservatives about the seriousness of CV. Perhaps I can gain a little credibility if I concede the point that conservatives, more than liberals have been wrong about the seriousness of CV. Their arguments that are contending that CV is "just like the flu" (among other bad arguments), have seemed just as ridiculous as arguments that Trump is somehow being stupid to take HC.
@techsouth saidI tend to agree that it's not smart to take HCQ as a prophylactic, especially for someone who is subject to heart risks like Trump, but I think the jury is very much still out on whether HCQ + Zinc can be a good treatment for people in the early stages of the virus.
@vivify
In fact, Fox News pushed an anti-coronavirus conspiracy that lead to actual coronavirus deniers:
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/coronavirus-deniers-take-aim-hospitals-pandemic-grows-n1172336
I've spent time on conservative groups arguing with conservatives about the seriousness of CV. Perhaps I can gain a little credibility if I concede the p ...[text shortened]... guments), have seemed just as ridiculous as arguments that Trump is somehow being stupid to take HC.
I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I've seen a truckload of anecdotal evidence on it. It's being tested. We'll know in a few months.
@techsouth saidYou're not getting what I'm saying. The effectiveness of the drug has no bearing on Trump being an abject moron.
If you are saying Trump is being stupid, you need to prove doctor's AREN'T risk adverse. I'm saying Trump is not being stupid. I don't need to prove anything for that.
Tell me: do you honestly believe Trump took the time to carefully research the effects of the drug and listened to reasoned arguments for or against doing so? Or, given Trump's history of denying the seriousness of the virus and his alliance to businesses, could it be more plausible that Trump hasn't really considered the safety of the drug and is more concerned with making a case for reopening businesses? If it's the later (which it very likely is) then Trump is an idiot for taking it.
To be frank, there's actually no reason to believe Trump is even taking the drug. Trump has an extensive history of lying, with news outlets like the Washington Post reporting over 16,000 falsehoods or outright lies...in JUST his past 3 years as a politician. Both Politico and PolitiFact have repeatedly given Trump "Lie of the year" on more than one occasion.
Given Trump's incredible record of lying, I'm pretty sure he's not even taking the drug and is just lying to make the COVID treatment seem credible and use that as an excuse to reopen businesses.
@sh76 saidThere are at least three things different about Trump than you and I that might make him more of a candidate for taking the drug prophylacticly than you or I.
I tend to agree that it's not smart to take HCQ as a prophylactic, especially for someone who is subject to heart risks like Trump, but I think the jury is very much still out on whether HCQ + Zinc can be a good treatment for people in the early stages of the virus.
I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I've seen a truckload of anecdotal evidence on it. It's being tested. We'll know in a few months.
1. He'd have a doctor to monitor his status daily if necessary. They probably know how much plaque is in his arteries. (My doctor just wants me to take cholesterol pills without checking artery plaque).
2. He has a much bigger target on him than you or I. One can easily imagine there being a person with CV deliberately breathing in Trump's face given the opportunity. I don't have any enemies like that, and I'm guessing you don't either.
3. He can get the drug. I can't. Probably you can't either. And the president's safety trumps concerns of a drug shortage.
Other things we don't know, which would affect his decision are:
1. How much time he has recently spent in close contact with someone later found to be CV+.
2. What is the dose he is taking.
But you're right. He is rather old and overweight. That would be a factor that might make someone less inclined to take HC.
My main contention is that for us to sit here behind our anonymous keyboards and judge Trump's decision to take HC as stupid is a leap we're not qualified to make.
@vivify
You're not getting what I'm saying. The effectiveness of the drug has no bearing on Trump being an abject moron.
In what I'm saying, the effectiveness also has no bearing on whether we can evaluate Trump's choice as being smart or not. I feel like I am understanding your point and disagreeing with it.
I've occasionally tried to defend Obama on conservative discussion groups. Obviously all (including me) don't like his decisions and think many of them are wrong. But it is hard to get the point through that Obama would not have got to be president if he was just plain stupid. That's also true of Trump. He is always accused of not listening to experts, but haven't you noticed that the so called "experts" have not only been wrong, which we have seen as time has gone by, but even at any snapshot in time, there are many experts with drastically different opinions at a given snapshot of time. Since we know that many doctors take HC preventatively and would prescribe to family, that puts it in the realm of a defendable choice. Neither you nor I were there, nor will we likely ever her a truly objective report, but I'd judge the likelihood of Trump sitting in a room full of "experts" who unanimously tell him to not take HC and he still chooses to take it at about 0.
@techsouth saidTechsouth, these liberal types on this thread, who have an added bonus of hating the President of the United States, would give him hell if he decided to take one more aspirin than prescribed. Funny stuff, libs, your man Obama was a dopehead. He craved the stuff. As much as said so. Question. If he were President, would you give him a pass on the dope?
There are at least three things different about Trump than you and I that might make him more of a candidate for taking the drug prophylacticly than you or I.
1. He'd have a doctor to monitor his status daily if necessary. They probably know how much plaque is in his arteries. (My doctor just wants me to take cholesterol pills without checking artery plaque).
2. He ha ...[text shortened]... ous keyboards and judge Trump's decision to take HC as stupid is a leap we're not qualified to make.
You wouldn't lie, would you?
@AverageJoe1
Obama cold stoned would be 100 times better as POTUS than tRUMP on his best days. For one thing, he has this attribute tRUMP lacks: EMPATHY.
@sonhouse saidGolly, I hadn't thought of that. He really would be better cold-stoned than Trump.
@AverageJoe1
Obama cold stoned would be 100 times better as POTUS than tRUMP on his best days. For one thing, he has this attribute tRUMP lacks: EMPATHY.
Empathy: One issue. I won't waste many keystrokes on you, Sonhouse, the king of capital letters. Th Veterans. He has a LOT of empathy for Veterans. Google ( I wont for you) what Trump did for veterans. Doper-Obama, who could not shoulder an M-16, knows nothing of war and death and suffering, he shoots basketball and acts cool with a beer in the Rose Garden. Trump took care of the veterans, which Obama shunned, and they love him.
So Sonhouse, trump has empathy. You (and Obama) obviously have ....something else!!!!!!! Ha!
@techsouth saidRemember when Trump stared at the sun during a solar eclipse, even with experts constantly telling the public not to? Remember that?
I'd judge the likelihood of Trump sitting in a room full of "experts" who unanimously tell him to not take HC and he still chooses to take it at about 0.
Or when Trump refused to wear a mask in a building with a sign saying everyone must wear a mask?