Debates
17 Jan 21
19 Jan 21
@wildgrass saidPrevious discussions have batted the Nordic Model around. I looked it up. Right off, this popped out at me. "Two of the latest concerns are an aging population and an influx of immigrants." We have both....big time. Big time, Wildgrass. Please tell us how we get around that.
Programs? My post was not about tax increases at all. The cost increase of the big mac is paid for by the consumer, not the taxpayer. Companies should pay workers enough so they don't have to rely on the federal government for handouts. Pay workers a living wage and the federal contribution to their well-being decreases. Let's not have a capitalist society in which corporat ...[text shortened]... hoosing is funny coming from a lib but not a conservative? It's kinda the whole point of governance.
Another thing. It says it works OK for smaller countries where citizens are more homogenous. Since we are WAAAY NON-homogenous, doesn't that mean it would not work so well here?
And get this....it says that the Nordic provides a template for reforming unchecked capitalism, which has created income inequality!! What? Capitalism creates income inequality? No, some people working harder than others creates income inequality. Pre-Covid,, there were 7Million unfilled jobs for the taking. So, I would take exception to that statement.
So could you comment just on the above,,,,,neither of us wants to drag all this up again, which is discussed ad nauseam by economists smarter than we are.
This is interesting stuff.
19 Jan 21
1 edit
@averagejoe1 said
Previous discussions have batted the Nordic Model around. I looked it up. Right off, this popped out at me. "Two of the latest concerns are an aging population and an influx of immigrants." We have both....big time. Big time, Wildgrass. Please tell us how we get around that.
Another thing. It says it works OK for smaller countries where citizens are more homoge ...[text shortened]... in, which is discussed ad nauseam by economists smarter than we are.
This is interesting stuff.
So could you comment just on the above,,
I would comment on the above if I knew how to interpret your rambling incoherent comment.
You said $15 / hour minimum wage at McDs was a bad idea because of automation (I think).
I mentioned that McDs has actual workers in their stores that make a lot more than that - $22 / hour minimum wage - and management offsets this cost by raising their burger prices by 22 cents. To me, this seems like a healthier form of capitalism since those employees rely on their employer for money/benefits and not the federal government. Our current form of capitalism allows companies to pay people way less than a living wage or adequate benefits because there are a raft of federally-funded programs they can use for food and shelter and health care.
You seem to have glommed onto the specific countries in which workers are paid living wages, but the important point was that it is possible for McD's to pay workers what they need to survive and also make a profit. This seems like it should be a priority of the Federal government to get people off welfare programs and into self-sustaining employment.
I dunno. I'd rather pay the actual cost of the cheeseburger and not the government-subsidized cost. Therefore, as a capitalist, I support raising the minimum wage.
19 Jan 21
@no1marauder saidWhat was the context of that statement (I didn't notice it)? Was it merely repeating the (in)famous Danish study?
He also made posts saying that wearing masks was worthless in preventing the spread of COVID.
Maybe Twitter prefers not giving a forum to advice that will literally cause people to die.
19 Jan 21
@zahlanzi saidI guess you don't use Twitter much; but for years, long before this purge, the Twitter community has been substantially left-leaning. Just look at the trending topics every day. They're all trending for reasons of making a left talking point. But at least you could always see what all sides were saying if you searched hard enough.
Conservatives (i am being kind and not using the n-word) have been whining (on social media) they are being censored on social media since even before trump. To the annoyance of the normal people online who wished that was true. Somehow the hateful vitriol only kept increasing. Hateful pricks online left alone for the simple and obvious truth: Zuckerberg and Dorsey like mone ...[text shortened]... of Trump and you idiots call them "leftist echo chambers" for at long last doing some minor cleanup.
After the purge, it's basically just an echo chamber.
19 Jan 21
@sh76 saidI always attributed the trending topic deal to their overall user base as opposed to a fundamental bias. Libs are more likely to post actively on twitter, thus the trending topics often are liberal. Twitter has more than 300 million accounts and at least 100 million active users so purging 70,000 isn't likely to move the needle on the topic trends all that much.
I guess you don't use Twitter much; but for years, long before this purge, the Twitter community has been substantially left-leaning. Just look at the trending topics every day. They're all trending for reasons of making a left talking point. But at least you could always see what all sides were saying if you searched hard enough.
After the purge, it's basically just an echo chamber.
19 Jan 21
@wildgrass saidUnderstood. The trending phenomenon has been in effect for a long time (since I started using Twitter, actually).
I always attributed the trending topic deal to their overall user base as opposed to a fundamental bias. Libs are more likely to post actively on twitter, thus the trending topics often are liberal. Twitter has more than 300 million accounts and at least 100 million active users so purging 70,000 isn't likely to move the needle on the topic trends all that much.
But the purge is scaring off many very reasonable very smart people who lean right. Even the ones who haven't been punished by Twitter are trying other platforms where they don't have to post with one eye open all the time.
19 Jan 21
@sh76 said"but for years, long before this purge, the Twitter community has been substantially left-leaning."
I guess you don't use Twitter much; but for years, long before this purge, the Twitter community has been substantially left-leaning. Just look at the trending topics every day. They're all trending for reasons of making a left talking point. But at least you could always see what all sides were saying if you searched hard enough.
After the purge, it's basically just an echo chamber.
that means more left-leaning people use Twitter. Not that right-wingers are persecuted. It's common knowledge republicans wouldn't win a single election if you abolished the electoral college. The younger people, the city people with more access to the internet, are all left leaning.
"Just look at the trending topics every day."
Still not a proof rightwingers are persecuted. Maybe, just maybe, the left wingers are more interesting?
"They're all trending for reasons of making a left talking point"
They're all trending because they are more interesting than "i don't give a fuk i am killing your grandma, i am not wearing a mask". Or "Clinton should be put in jail"
"After the purge, it's basically just an echo chamber."
You're delusional. The way you're talking makes people believe (you believe) no maga can log onto Twitter.
People are fed up with Trump. People are fed up with right wing talking points like healthcare should be a privilege only rich people should have. Not to mention the ludicrous ones like democrats are eating babies. They don't find you interesting. That's why you're not trending.
"After the purge, it's basically just an echo chamber."
What do you know. Ted Cruz's account is still up, 4million followers. I wonder what left winger follows him apart for a handful of reporters and representatives that need to keep up with his latest crap. That nutjob Lauren Boebert, Qanon enthusiast and an even bigger gun enthusiast, still up . 400000 followers. Tweeted 2 hours ago.
Found them within 2 minutes because i am reminded constantly on twitter of their latest idiocy and i am not gonna look for more because you're talking out of your poophole.
I swear it is hilarious to keep seeing proeminent right wingers go on every news outlet, every social media, make youtubes, write books about how they are being silenced, all the while not realizing the irony of having so many opportunities to shout to the drones that they can't shout to the drones.
And you buy it, like a good little drone.
AAAAAAAA Twitter is left-propaganda, the sky is falling.
Meanwhile, in non-coockoo land, we not garbed in tinfoil hats are being gripped more and more by depression at how democracy everywhere is being strangled by the fukton of misinformation spread by rightwingers everywhere.
At the very least we can now only deal with the misinformation instead of watching some Qanon Maga lunatic call his other lunatics to bring their guns to Biden's inauguration.
19 Jan 21
1 edit
@wildgrass saidI'm not saying that it is a bad idea because of automation. But, In this country, maybe not Denmark, it will 'result' in automation, however. Your highschooler will likely not find a job in the fast food business, the most common entry-level jobs. $15 will cost those jobs. Just like Biden shutting down our energy-independent pipe lines will cost jobs. You are sparring with a capitalist here. I think you fellers don't see the picture, is it emotion? What is it? Curious indeed.So could you comment just on the above,,
I would comment on the above if I knew how to interpret your rambling incoherent comment.
You said $15 / hour minimum wage at McDs was a bad idea because of automation (I think).
I mentioned that McDs has actual workers in their stores that make a lot more than that - $22 / hour minimum wage - and management off ...[text shortened]... not the government-subsidized cost. Therefore, as a capitalist, I support raising the minimum wage.
In Denmark, You are aware, of course, that high taxes, government intervention and relatively low GDP and productivity lead to slow, if any, domestic growth. If you know Americans, we don't do very well under conditions of 'slow domestic growth'. Brrrrrrrr We like to make a lot of money and live life to the fullest....takes money. We are not a complacent bunch like the Fins on their bicycles. I am just stating the facts. Fins just don't do much. We do. So, you can't expect us tough git'er done Americans to be like a Fin. I am being serious here. Different people, don't you see.
I note you use the phrase 'make a profit'....gives me pause, it is like you are saying that the GOVERNMENT will regulate that profit? You see how different we are, ....that is why we debate. The government administers (just about everything?) for the benefit of the citizens in Denmark . Nanny government, if you will. So, to follow your post, you think Americans should submit to such Administration. Do you think that? You cannot think that, I don't believe you.
19 Jan 21
@averagejoe1 said
I'm not saying that it is a bad idea because of automation. But, In this country, maybe not Denmark, it will 'result' in automation, however. Your highschooler will likely not find a job in the fast food business, the most common entry-level jobs. $15 will cost those jobs. Just like Biden shutting down our energy-independent pipe lines will cost jobs. You are sparring ...[text shortened]... uld submit to such Administration. Do you think that? You cannot think that, I don't believe you.
...that high taxes, government intervention and relatively low GDP and productivity lead to slow, if any, domestic growth.
Right we're not talking about any taxes so I don't know why you keep bringing it up. A higher minimum wage "intervention" that allows workers to pay their bills without relying on the federal government handouts would be a net shrinkage in the size of federal government. More reliance on employment for income vs. government. For McD's, it will result in higher food prices that align with the actual cost to produce that food. That would be better than a system subsidized by federal government benefits (food stamps, housing, welfare, Medicaid) for workers who can't survive on $8.65/hour.
I don't know what you're about with the Dutch. I brought it up as an example of where you have workers being paid a living wage and the company is still profiting nicely. Just, the burgers cost a little more.
19 Jan 21
@averagejoe1 said"We like to make a lot of money and live life to the fullest....takes money"
I'm not saying that it is a bad idea because of automation. But, In this country, maybe not Denmark, it will 'result' in automation, however. Your highschooler will likely not find a job in the fast food business, the most common entry-level jobs. $15 will cost those jobs. Just like Biden shutting down our energy-independent pipe lines will cost jobs. You are sparring ...[text shortened]... uld submit to such Administration. Do you think that? You cannot think that, I don't believe you.
And idiots are under the impression everyone can "make a lot of money". Or that the french, germans, norwegians, etc don't like money or something.
"If you know Americans, we don't do very well under conditions of 'slow domestic growth'."
Some americans are stupid. Some dumb MAGA has 100 dollars in the bank, if his car breaks he has to ask his relatives for a loan and hasn't had a health checkup in 5 years but Fox News shows him a graph with an upward line and tells him: "Look, the economy is GREAT!!!! Nothing to worry about, you are doing great because we are doing great. "
Others realize that it don't mean jack if the economy is doing great if he is not one of the few for whom the economy is working.
"We are not a complacent bunch like the Fins"
They seem complacent because they are happy, you ignorant ashat. Their children get one of the best educations. If they get sick they get treated. If they get fired they receive help. They are able to save up money because the wages are fair. If they want to start a business they just quit their jobs without risking their life because they lose their health insurance.
"Fins just don't do much. "
They do.
"We do."
You're dumb. The people living paycheck to paycheck aren't doing jack.
"The government administers (just about everything?) for the benefit of the citizens in Denmark . "
As it fukin should.
"Nanny government, if you will."
You JUST bailed out businesses during COVID. A second time. You give subsidies and tax cuts to the richest. In the trillions. You are the biggest nanny state the world has ever seen, you just coddle the richest leeches.
20 Jan 21
1 edit
@zahlanzi saidHere's what I am hearing. We've got the land of opportunity here, our ace in the hole. You want to set aside all of the freedom in this country which allows some people (the ones who want to) to get ahead, and instead use those resources that were otherwise available to the producers... and blow it on govt programs, the people who don't do anything. Sacrifice the abilities of the strong, and think of the un-strong first. Well, then who will the unstrong count on to keep the economy, the production, free stuff, working in this country. Pour it down a temporary hole, getting nobody no-where?. Is that what I am hearing? Can't have both. Spread it all around evenly (Obama, Kamala plans) with no investment, let it go to waste. So I say let free enterprise reign, everyone who wants a piece of it can get on the train. Been working for 240 years. But some will be small pieces, but with work can become large pieces. You seem to think everyone should have equal pieces. This is were that phrase 'Life aint fair' applies. Gotta live with that. You think Nanny Govt can Fix everything? You do, don't you. Not here. Maybe Denmark. Won't work here. I myself would not like such a society. For me, it is worky worky worky. Would not want your restrictions placed on me. What if I invent rocket propelled Danish Ice Skates and make $20M in three weeks? Who gets that successfully earned money? You know, you may live there. Truthfully....would you end up with some of my earnings? And that is cool with you? Guess I would stop working and just join the mobs and minions and feed off the govt. I sure would not work anymore !
"We like to make a lot of money and live life to the fullest....takes money"
And idiots are under the impression everyone can "make a lot of money". Or that the french, germans, norwegians, etc don't like money or something.
"If you know Americans, we don't do very well under conditions of 'slow domestic growth'."
Some americans are stupid. Some dumb MAGA has 100 dolla ...[text shortened]... ions. You are the biggest nanny state the world has ever seen, you just coddle the richest leeches.
Heard this one? Give a man a fish, or teach him to fish. May sound complicated to Marx minds, but it makes sense in a society such as ours.
The 'stupid' people you speak of ? Maybe about 40M in this country, I say support them with all the food, clothing and shelter they need, and then everyone else go to work. I am hoping you are a member of the latter lot.
20 Jan 21
@zahlanzi said"The govt administers everything for the benefit of the citizens". Or in other words, from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." Sounds familiar,,,,,and creepy.
"We like to make a lot of money and live life to the fullest....takes money"
And idiots are under the impression everyone can "make a lot of money". Or that the french, germans, norwegians, etc don't like money or something.
"If you know Americans, we don't do very well under conditions of 'slow domestic growth'."
Some americans are stupid. Some dumb MAGA has 100 dolla ...[text shortened]... ions. You are the biggest nanny state the world has ever seen, you just coddle the richest leeches.
As to bailing out businesses in a crisis, life aint perfect, that is a rough one. Done in a time of crisis, though, Zalahanzi. You see, what you are arguing for is to do it 24/7, 365 days a year. A trough for people to feed on.
Can you truly not see the difference.