This is a question that has been dicussed since 2000 years now, well almost.
Many secular people are not willing or able to accept the historical evidence given in the Jewish Gospels. They want evidence from other sources, which they also try to dismiss of course ......
The works of Flavius Josephus, a first century history writer, is a source outside the New Testament, that gives a report of a person called Jesus Christ.
Here it is:
"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared."
- Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63
(Based on the translation of Louis H. Feldman, The Loeb Classical Library.)
http://members.aol.com/FLJOSEPHUS/home.htm
Of course a lot of debate has emerged around this piece of history writing by Flavius Josephus. Understandably this is the most famous part of his historical work.
The site I've mentioned gives the position of both (or more) sides in this controversy and is, as far as I can see, scientificly orientated and not ideologically.
Originally posted by CliffLandinFirst questions first Cliff. If He wasn't an historic person, then how can he be the the Son of God, the image of the living God ?
The question isn't whether Jesus lived, it is whether he was the son of God.
Your question however is a very important one, worthy of a thread of it's own.
Originally posted by ivanhoeYes. This is true.
This is a question that has been dicussed since 2000 years now, well almost.
Many secular people are not willing or able to accept the historical evidence given in the Jewish Gospels. They want evidence from other sources, which they also try to dismiss of course ......
The works of Flavius Josephus, a first century history writer, is a source outside t ...[text shortened]... in this controversy and is, as far as I can see, scientificly orientated and not ideologically.
Seemingly Jesus also played in a rock opera.
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Originally posted by shavixmirTell me what you think about your friends at the top
Yes. This is true.
Seemingly Jesus also played in a rock opera.
Who'd you think besides yourself's the pick of the crop
Budda was he where its at, is he where you are
Could Mohammed move a mountain, or was that just PR?
Originally posted by ivanhoeI will look at the site you mention referring to Josephus and check out the Tacitus writings (if I can find them) in a little while; right now I am somewhat busy amusing my 3 year old grandson sufficently to keep him away from my sideboards. Thanks for the site.
This is a question that has been dicussed since 2000 years now, well almost.
Many secular people are not willing or able to accept the historical evidence given in the Jewish Gospels. They want evidence from other sources, which they also try to dismiss of course ......
The works of Flavius Josephus, a first century history writer, is a source outside t ...[text shortened]... in this controversy and is, as far as I can see, scientificly orientated and not ideologically.
Originally posted by CliffLandin
Please refer to Darfius' post @ http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=19897&page=12
To be fair, his post indicated little or no reference to Jesus himself, but rather to pieces of evidence that compliment Biblical references. True, today most historians take it as given that Jesus was an actuall historic figure, however many extremists claim the opposite or distort the historicity of Christ with fantasies. Dan Brown comes to mind.
Whilst I agree with you Cliff, I do believe taking it as a given that Jesus actually existed (without any research) is putting the cart before the horse.
chrs.
pc
cheers
Tacitus also gives a report that confirmes the historicity of the person we call Jesus Christ.
"Next the Roman historian, Tacitus, who is respected by modern scholars for historical accuracy, wrote in 115 A.D. about Christ and His Church:
The author of the denomination was Christ[us] who had been executed in Tiberius time by the Procurator Pontius Pilate. The pestilent superstition, checked for a while, burst out again, not only throughout Judea...but throughout the city of Rome also...
[Tacitus, Annals, XV 44]
Even with disdain for the Christian faith, Tacitus still treated the execution of Christ as historical fact, drawing connections to Roman events and leaders. (cf. Luke 3:1ff)"
From the site "The Real Jesus Christ" :
http://users.binary.net/polycarp/jesus.html
Originally posted by Bobla45Did you mean to die like that?
Tell me what you think about your friends at the top
Who'd you think besides yourself's the pick of the crop
Budda was he where its at, is he where you are
Could Mohammed move a mountain, or was that just PR?
Was that a mistake or
Did you know you messy death would be a record breaker?
Don’t you get me wrong - I only want to know
Originally posted by ivanhoeStill chasing my grandson, but again thanks for the cite which was missing from Darfius' cut and paste job.
Tacitus also gives a report that confirmes the historicity of the person we call Jesus Christ.
"Next the Roman historian, Tacitus, who is respected by modern scholars for historical accuracy, wrote in 115 A.D. about Christ and His Church:
The author of the denomination was Christ[us] who had been executed in Tiberius time by the Procurator Pontius ...[text shortened]... "
From the site "The Real Jesus Christ" :
http://users.binary.net/polycarp/jesus.html