I think this thread is suffering from a bout of "what is real" syndrome.
Are works of literature real if they don't hold to exact fact?
Are our cultural mythologies wasted because the beasts and gods are not real?
Is an exact "real event" real just because "it happened"? How do we know "it happened"? Are we not in all cases except our own, taking the word of others as to the "reality" of all things not observed by us?
Of course Jesus is real. So is Paul Bunyan and Superman. They each have their charms. I don't exist. The person you know as SVW is just a bunch of letters on the computer terminal. Am I real?
Prove it.
Originally posted by blindfaith101It sometimes astounds me how little you know about the Bible.
It is clearly written in THE WORD OF GOD, that GOD, JESUS, and THE HOLY SPIRIT are all one person.
As a Doctrine, Trinitarianism appears to be a late second
century notion, first coined by Theophilus of Antioch, and
developed by Tertulian and especially Origen.
There is NO word for Trinity or any of its synonyms (such as
'Three-in-One'😉 in any of the Bible. The only time that the
Three are mentioned together is at the Commissioning of the
Disciples at the end of St Matthew's Gospel. The only other
time they appeared together is at Jesus' Baptism, wherein the
Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus and God, the Father, spoke
(saying different things in different Gospels, I might add).
None of this 'clearly' states anything about these Three Persons
being One God. None. It's a later convention, one which was the
subject of great debate until the 'heretics' were killed.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioThat is what a Atheist would say.
It sometimes astounds me how little you know about the Bible.
As a Doctrine, Trinitarianism appears to be a [b]late second
century notion, first coined by Theophilus of Antioch, and
developed by Tertulian and especially Origen.
There is NO word for Trinity or any of its synonyms (such as
'Three-in-One'😉 in any of the Bible. The only time that ...[text shortened]... ntion, one which was the
subject of great debate until the 'heretics' were killed.
Nemesio[/b]
Jesus said that he and the father are one.
They had to come up with a name.
The could have called them the 3 in one God.
And There is no word Purgatory in the Bible either.
Originally posted by RBHILL
That is what a Atheist would say.
Obviously not.
Jesus said that he and the father are one.
That's two. Never three. Never. I've pointed out
the two times in Scripture where the Three appear
in the same passage. It never says 'Three in One.'
Never.
They had to come up with a name.
They first came up with the idea that the Three are One.
Then they came up with a name. The Trinitarian Doctrine
is not Biblical, but Traditional in origin.
The could have called them the 3 in one God.
They did, but after the Bible. There is no Scriptural support
for the Doctrine of the Trinity, that God is Three in One. That
doesn't mean it's not true, but it means that one must turn to
extra-Biblical sources for it.
And There is no word Purgatory in the Bible either.
So what? Who cares? I'm not talking about nor defending
the notion of Purgatory.
Originally posted by NemesioDo want scriptural referances that GOD and JESUS CHRIST and THE HOLY SPIRIT are one.
It sometimes astounds me how little you know about the Bible.
As a Doctrine, Trinitarianism appears to be a [b]late second
century notion, first coined by Theophilus of Antioch, and
developed by Tertulian and especially Origen.
There is NO word for Trinity or any of its synonyms (such as
'Three-in-One'😉 in any of the Bible. The only time that ...[text shortened]... ntion, one which was the
subject of great debate until the 'heretics' were killed.
Nemesio[/b]
Originally posted by NemesioCatholics believe in it.
And There is no word Purgatory in the Bible either.
So what? Who cares? I'm not talking about nor defending
the notion of Purgatory.[/b]
But the Bible say that there is NO condemnation in Christ Jesus. So they are lying of that Place. So they think that their believers will be seperated from God for a little Bit, that is false.
Originally posted by RBHILLGreat. Irrelevant, but great. I am very happy for you.
Catholics believe in it.
But the Bible say that there is NO condemnation in Christ Jesus. So they are lying of that Place. So they think that their believers will be seperated from God for a little Bit, that is false.
Do you want to get back on topic or start a thread on
Purgatory?
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioSpeaking of getting back on topic, please look at the title of this thread and explain to me how a discussion of the Holy Trinity is on-topic.
Great. Irrelevant, but great. I am very happy for you.
Do you want to get back on topic or start a thread on
Purgatory?
Nemesio
Originally posted by ivanhoeThank you for this site; it's quite interesting and I intend to go back and read more of it, not just the portions concerning Jesus.
This is a question that has been dicussed since 2000 years now, well almost.
Many secular people are not willing or able to accept the historical evidence given in the Jewish Gospels. They want evidence from other sources, which they also try to dismiss of course ......
The works of Flavius Josephus, a first century history writer, is a source outside t ...[text shortened]... in this controversy and is, as far as I can see, scientificly orientated and not ideologically.
The site concludes that the passage cited used as source material an earlier Christian document but that later Christian copyists substantially altered the text. They apparently added the words "He was the Messiah", and "indeed if one ought to call him a man" and left out "They reported" before the claims of divinity. An Arabic version of the same text omits these. http://members.aol.com/FLJOSEPHUS/question.htm
It is still some proof of a historical Jesus, but I'd like to take a look at Tacitus and peruse some other of Josephus' writing to see if they are acknowledged to be historically accurate. Still, good points raised.
Originally posted by NemesioNemesio: "There is no Scriptural support for the Doctrine of the Trinity, that God is Three in One. That doesn't mean it's not true, but it means that one must turn to extra-Biblical sources for it."
Originally posted by RBHILL
[b]That is what a Atheist would say.
Obviously not.
Jesus said that he and the father are one.
That's two. Never three. Never. I've pointed out
the two times in Scripture where t ...[text shortened]... s? I'm not talking about nor defending
the notion of Purgatory.[/b]
There is no Scriptural support for the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, the Triune God ? Are you sure ?
New thread maybe ?