11 Feb 23
@kewpie saidSorry. I guess I was taking out my Shav frustration on you. Your post was so varied that I missed the main point, you could have just said housing is not a right.
I gave you the same direct answer twice already. Housing is not a right. But I'm bowing out now because there's no point trying to debate someone who can't read my answer. And particularly someone who calls people libs as if it is a negative thing.
So, where is Shav, we are all awaiting his explanation .
11 Feb 23
@shallow-blue saidShallow, the little feller quoted the Preamble et al till I got a bit dizzy, so, yeah, I certainly missed what he said. I already apologized.
And for "can't", read "won't".
But, give me a break....I was looking for a simple answer, is housing a right..On his post, 3rd from bottom on page 1, he talks about charity and does not mention 'right to housing'.
Yeah, I prob 'won't' really fully read posts that skirt an issue. Sonhouse is plenty enough for that!!
11 Feb 23
@kewpie said"These are needs, i.e. necessary. That doesn't means they're rights. They have to be acknowledged and respected, but they're not automatic entitlements, in spite of assorted amendments made by various governments to the US Constitution."
I think that's something you founding fathers said best:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the cons ...[text shortened]... every oversimplified bit of nonsense that you post.
... there but for the grace of God go I ...
What is the point of this hair splitting. They are needs and should be provided but they aren't rights? So what are rights? Magical concepts that everyone has and are automatically enforced? We know damn well the classical rights are broken all the time and the only reason countries uphold them is because we enlightened ourselves and we made a conscious decision to uphold them
Now that we as a civilization have the means to do so, we simply must make a conscious decision to uphold others as rights. The right to education, healthcare, shelter, food. Even further, the right to free time, the right to access the internet, the right to transportation.
"That's it regarding rights. Absolutely nothing else."
the very text you quoted leaves the possibility that there may be other rights not mentioned: "among these are" not "which are the following and only the following, for all time"
You're more definitive than a bunch of slavers centuries ago.
@zahlanzi saidEdit: Dear Zahlooney bamboozle for brains,
"These are needs, i.e. necessary. That doesn't means they're rights. They have to be acknowledged and respected, but they're not automatic entitlements, in spite of assorted amendments made by various governments to the US Constitution."
What is the point of this hair splitting. They are needs and should be provided but they aren't rights? So what are rights? Magical co ...[text shortened]... and only the following, for all time"
You're more definitive than a bunch of slavers centuries ago.
A right is the sovereignty to act without the permission of others. All men possess the same rights everywhere all the time. There are some exceptions;, children do not yet have the mental facility to handle the concepts (hence the age of consent), same with a few unfortunate retards. There is another group who lose their rights and that is the initiators of force, threats of force and fraud (get lost No1 misrepresenter) They lose their rights because they do not recognise those rights in others.
Because the very organisation (goobermint) tasked with protecting rights is by far the worst abuser of human rights does not mean a man does not possess them. Even as the goobermint executioners bullet rushes toward his head that man has the grand daddy of all rights, the right to life.
A piece of tin over your head is not a right,, the state brain washing machine (aka the state brainwashing education system) is not a right. No man can have a right that infringes the right of another.
@kewpie saidawww boohoo, your post is offensive, think I'll go cry baby to the mods, sniff, sniff.
I gave you the same direct answer twice already. Housing is not a right. But I'm bowing out now because there's no point trying to debate someone who can't read my answer. And particularly someone who calls people libs as if it is a negative thing.
Grow a frickin pair FFS
12 Feb 23
@zahlanzi saidThis is not hair splitting, why apply such a phrase? Can we do this....
"These are needs, i.e. necessary. That doesn't means they're rights. They have to be acknowledged and respected, but they're not automatic entitlements, in spite of assorted amendments made by various governments to the US Constitution."
What is the point of this hair splitting. They are needs and should be provided but they aren't rights? So what are rights? Magical co ...[text shortened]... and only the following, for all time"
You're more definitive than a bunch of slavers centuries ago.
Since you continue to refer to a 'right', for which there are many definitions, can you tell us the definition of the rights of which you speak?
I have tried hard to make this as simple as possible. What can be more simple than asking you where the right to housing is? Where do I direct my gardener to go?
Anything short of a straight answer is, what....philosophy.?
12 Feb 23
@AverageJoe1.
Right: Restore something to an upright position. Like a capsized dinghy.
No, not that definition. Which one?
12 Feb 23
@averagejoe1 saidhttps://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/translations/english
This is not hair splitting, why apply such a phrase? Can we do this....
Since you continue to refer to a 'right', for which there are many definitions, can you tell us the definition of the rights of which you speak?
I have tried hard to make this as simple as possible. What can be more simple than asking you where the right to housing is? Where do I direct my gardener to go?
Anything short of a straight answer is, what....philosophy.?
It's a good start.
12 Feb 23
@zahlanzi saidNot a good start. Many of those rights are contradictory, the UN like the WHO are the last places to look for answers as to what is a right.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/translations/english
It's a good start.
Contradictory and undefined, so undefined as to be useless.
@zahlanzi saidGood God Almighty. Are you for real? Shav said some time ago that everyone has a right to housing.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/translations/english
It's a good start.
All of you have referred to your posted declaration.
You seem to be presenting the Declaration as the answer to my question. OK,,So, tell us, where in there is the provision which provides for free housing? Who is providing the Free Housing? Where is the Housing?
We both know that there is no such thing, Zahlanzi. Even Kewpie, on Page 1, Post #11, concedes that there is no such right. Shav, who started this, has slipped away and will not admit he is wrong.
Anyway, you can rewrite the Articles of the Declaration all day long. I wonder why they would put those lies in there to confuse people such as yourself. It is not true, I don't know of any country that provides for a right to housing. Maybe N Korea, I have no idea about them.
If you continue to make this claim, simply tell us who gives such right, and in what capacity?
It either is, or, it ain't.
- Joined
- 18 Jan 07
- Moves
- 12477
12 Feb 23
@averagejoe1 saidKewpie is not a "little feller". You really have to learn not to use Klan slang in civilised surroundings.
Shallow, the little feller
But, give me a break....I was looking for a simple answer
And there's your other problem. You've been told again and again that the answer isn't simple, yet you insist on asking whether Stalinism or neo-Capitalism is the right answer. The answer is no. Learn to accept that.
- Joined
- 18 Jan 07
- Moves
- 12477
12 Feb 23
@wajoma saidOK, I'll give you a complete list of your natural rights, all the rights you have just because you're born, which do not contradict anyone else's rights, and which do not come with a corresponding duty.
Not a good start. Many of those rights are contradictory, the UN like the WHO are the last places to look for answers as to what is a right.
Contradictory and undefined, so undefined as to be useless.
1. You have the right to have, a couple of days after you're born, your face eaten off by a passing leopard and to die in agony over the next day.
That's it. That's all. Any other right, every other right, including the right to live in a climate where it's too cold for leopards to begin with, you have thanks to being born in a society, and come with a duty to that society.
And yes, that includes the right to free speech - which comes with the duty to ensure that your speech doesn't harm society - and the right to make money - which comes with the duty to pay more into society the more you take out of it - and the right to housing, or health care, or social security, all of which come with the duty to make responsible use of them.
Sadly, since the 1980s (gosh, wonder why that is...), many people, particularly (though not exclusively) on the right, have been demanding their right to do as they please without acknowledging their duty to make sure their please doesn't become everyone else's displease. With Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Rupert Murdoch and Elizabeth Holmes as a result.
12 Feb 23
Being poor is expensive because the people that run the country can afford what you cannot. They own mostly stocks. Stock shares go up with inflation.
Inflation is a form of class warfare because it disproportionately hurts the poor. That is why wealthy people like the FRS to create inflation. While you get poorer they get richer. Since they own the corporate news media they will blame it on anything other than congress, the president and the Federal Reserve System.
Why do you all think Biden blamed Russia for inflation? Why do you think the corporate news media blamed it on supply chain issues, but not the oil refiners who are price fixing and blaming it on inflation? Because people who are screwing you over always scapegoat something else. It is what scammers do.
Now the FRS has to raise interest rates to fight the inflation they created by increasing the money supply. See the contradiction? It is an obvious scam for those who bother to look. Now the cost of borrowing money is higher too. Double screwed.
12 Feb 23
@shallow-blue saidFinally, you admit 'no' right to housing. What did it take, two weeks? Why all the flowerdy soliloquies?
Kewpie is not a "little feller". You really have to learn not to use Klan slang in civilised surroundings.But, give me a break....I was looking for a simple answer
And there's your other problem. You've been told again and again that the answer isn't simple, yet you insist on asking whether Stalinism or neo-Capitalism is the right answer. The answer is no. Learn to accept that.
And for the record, 'little feller' is quite the term of endearment where I come from. "Did you see that little feller noodle that catfish??!"
Being from far away, you will LOVE to see what Noodling is down south. This daddy calls him little buddy, same thing.