Debates
07 Oct 23
@shavixmir saidNot going to happen, Israel are usually committed to a head count of at least 5:1 so a lot more Gazans will die
The UN says Israel has given a 24-hour deadline for everyone in the northern part of the Gaza Strip - home to about 1.1 million people - to evacuate to the south
To be exact, Gaza is 365 square KM’s in size, with a population of more than 2 million.
In no way is this a proportional response. And in no way is it going to do Israel any favours in the long run.
It’s not ...[text shortened]... ut area to another bombed out area within 24 hours. Without power, water, etc.
Fukkin’ mad stuff.
This is what Israel does to defend itself it makes its enemy pay such a heavy price that attacks end up being very rare.
There is no way that Hamas did not know what the Israeli response would be so they have the same responsibility as the guy that lures an angry half starved bear into a playground.
Regional actors have always seen Palestinian lives as expendable and until Palestinians disagree with them this will be a constant motif
@shavixmir saidI also wouldn’t be surprised if Israel turned the north and eastern border areas of Gaza into a heavily militarised buffer zone, so in effect the gazans will lose a shed load of land.
The UN says Israel has given a 24-hour deadline for everyone in the northern part of the Gaza Strip - home to about 1.1 million people - to evacuate to the south
To be exact, Gaza is 365 square KM’s in size, with a population of more than 2 million.
In no way is this a proportional response. And in no way is it going to do Israel any favours in the long run.
It’s not ...[text shortened]... ut area to another bombed out area within 24 hours. Without power, water, etc.
Fukkin’ mad stuff.
It’s not right but it’s a foregone conclusion.
If we just point the finger at Israel and let those behind Hamas wring their hands in fake grief and cry their crocodile tears the cycle will continue ad nauseam.
it's baffling to me that there are adults who cannot comprehend there can be more than 2 stances on a subject. Especially on subjects as complex as the Palestinian issue.
I understand some people are just dumb and thus need to reduce everything to the simplest form but seriously how dumb can you be to think Palestine is to be reduced to "are you with Israel or Hamas".
@shavixmir saidThis has nothing to do with any sort of response, let alone a proportional response.
The UN says Israel has given a 24-hour deadline for everyone in the northern part of the Gaza Strip - home to about 1.1 million people - to evacuate to the south
To be exact, Gaza is 365 square KM’s in size, with a population of more than 2 million.
In no way is this a proportional response. And in no way is it going to do Israel any favours in the long run.
It’s not ...[text shortened]... ut area to another bombed out area within 24 hours. Without power, water, etc.
Fukkin’ mad stuff.
Israel has decided, and rightfully so, that it needs to take out Hamas' ability to function, and that means decapitating its leadership and breaking its grip on power. And to do that, it's going to need to take out its bases and will require a ground invasion (probably in the next 48 hours).
This is not about tit-for-tat responses. It's war. War, like World War II, where the Russians weren't interested in "responding" to the Germans. They fought until it was over and the Nazis were out of power.
Unfortunately, Hamas' modus operandi is to hide its bases, weapons caches and launch sites amongst the civilian population. To take out those operation centers, Israel must attack those areas. There's no other choice. To "respond" and then ceasefire and wait for this to happen again in a year or two is intolerable.
Israel was invaded. About 1/5,000th of its population were killed in a single day (comparable to well over 50,000 Americans, per capita). If declaring war has ever been justified by anything, this is it. By contrast, Pearl Harbor was college fraternity prank raid.
As for power and water, possibly Hamas should have built an infrastructure that could provide its own power and water to its people (Gaza sits on an Aquifer and, in any case, desalination technology exists). But instead, they've decided to use pipes sent to them to built a water system to be repurposed as missiles (no citation needed, it's all over the news; just Google it).
"Responses" are for rocket attacks. This is war.
13 Oct 23
@kevcvs57 saidI don't think that's the strategy. The strategy is to take out Hamas altogether. They can't be allowed to stay in power after this any more than we'd have allowed Tojo to remain Japanese Prime Minister and the Imperial Rule Assistance Association to stay in power after World War II.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Israel turned the north and eastern border areas of Gaza into a heavily militarised buffer zone, so in effect the gazans will lose a shed load of land.
It’s not right but it’s a foregone conclusion.
If we just point the finger at Israel and let those behind Hamas wring their hands in fake grief and cry their crocodile tears the cycle will continue ad nauseam.
@sh76 saidyou're comparing the american ocupation of japan with israel's ocupation of palestine?
I don't think that's the strategy. The strategy is to take out Hamas altogether. They can't be allowed to stay in power after this any more than we'd have allowed Tojo to remain Japanese Prime Minister and the Imperial Rule Assistance Association to stay in power after World War II.
or would you like to take that idiotic comparisson back?
the americans didn't move their population to japan and pushed the entire japanese population into a tiny bit of land. Which they constantly shrunk. They didn't deny them access to basic human needs. They didn't made them live like second class citizens (even that term is magnanimous for what Israel is doing to palestinians). They didn't starve them out. They didn't deny them free travel. They didn't constantly bomb the entire population for the actions of a few.
13 Oct 23
@sh76 said"This is war."
This has nothing to do with any sort of response, let alone a proportional response.
Israel has decided, and rightfully so, that it needs to take out Hamas' ability to function, and that means decapitating its leadership and breaking its grip on power. And to do that, it's going to need to take out its bases and will require a ground invasion (probably in the next 48 hours). ...[text shortened]... needed, it's all over the news; just Google it).
"Responses" are for rocket attacks. This is war.
war crimes
13 Oct 23
@sh76 saidIsrael created Hamas. Israel has itself to blame for Hamas.
I don't think that's the strategy. The strategy is to take out Hamas altogether. They can't be allowed to stay in power after this any more than we'd have allowed Tojo to remain Japanese Prime Minister and the Imperial Rule Assistance Association to stay in power after World War II.
13 Oct 23
@sh76 said"There's no other choice."
This has nothing to do with any sort of response, let alone a proportional response.
Israel has decided, and rightfully so, that it needs to take out Hamas' ability to function, and that means decapitating its leadership and breaking its grip on power. And to do that, it's going to need to take out its bases and will require a ground invasion (probably in the next 48 hours). ...[text shortened]... needed, it's all over the news; just Google it).
"Responses" are for rocket attacks. This is war.
That is not true. Israel could stop creating terrorists by ending the blockade it imposed on Gaza and stop stealing Palestinian land. Blockades are an act of war. e have seen the devastating effect of blockades before.
https://reliefweb.int/report/yemen/torture-slow-motion-economic-blockade-yemen-and-its-grave-humanitarian-consequences
STOP TORTURING PALESTINIANS IN SLOW MOTION! END THE BLOCKADE!
13 Oct 23
@shavixmir saidYou are absolutely right. This evacuation order is insane.
The UN says Israel has given a 24-hour deadline for everyone in the northern part of the Gaza Strip - home to about 1.1 million people - to evacuate to the south
To be exact, Gaza is 365 square KM’s in size, with a population of more than 2 million.
In no way is this a proportional response. And in no way is it going to do Israel any favours in the long run.
It’s not ...[text shortened]... ut area to another bombed out area within 24 hours. Without power, water, etc.
Fukkin’ mad stuff.
Or should we call it a deportation order?
13 Oct 23
@sh76 said""Responses" are for rocket attacks. This is war."
This has nothing to do with any sort of response, let alone a proportional response.
Israel has decided, and rightfully so, that it needs to take out Hamas' ability to function, and that means decapitating its leadership and breaking its grip on power. And to do that, it's going to need to take out its bases and will require a ground invasion (probably in the next 48 hours). ...[text shortened]... needed, it's all over the news; just Google it).
"Responses" are for rocket attacks. This is war.
You are distorting the notion of a war crime.
No one has argued here that Israel had no right to start a war.
The problem is about the targeted bombing of civilians using aerial bombs and about the total blockade of the civilian population.
The present war crimes of Israel amount to genocide.
13 Oct 23
@sh76 saidHow long before the next generation gazans recreate Hamas.2. You cannot bomb your way out of a cycle of hate you have to make yourself impervious to it and a militarised buffer between Israel and Gaza / the West Bank would go a long way to achieving that
I don't think that's the strategy. The strategy is to take out Hamas altogether. They can't be allowed to stay in power after this any more than we'd have allowed Tojo to remain Japanese Prime Minister and the Imperial Rule Assistance Association to stay in power after World War II.
Getting your hands on the Hamas leadership is a pipe dream, they are probably in Tehran by now
13 Oct 23
@zahlanzi saidWe did all of those things. First, we embargoed their oil even before Pearl Harbor. Then, we drove them out of their island outposts and the Phillipines. All the while, we blockaded their home islands and practiced unrestricted submarine warfare, sinking every merchant vessel we could get to. We also bombed the stuffing out of their cities.
you're comparing the american ocupation of japan with israel's ocupation of palestine?
or would you like to take that idiotic comparisson back?
the americans didn't move their population to japan and pushed the entire japanese population into a tiny bit of land. Which they constantly shrunk. They didn't deny them access to basic human needs. They didn't made them liv ...[text shortened]... t deny them free travel. They didn't constantly bomb the entire population for the actions of a few.
13 Oct 23
@eintaluj saidIt's not an order. It's a suggestion. Israel doesn't have the power to order Gazans to do anything.
You are absolutely right. This evacuation order is insane.
Or should we call it a deportation order?
It's a lot more than we did for the residents or Dresden, Hamburg or Hiroshima.
Which, incidentally, we not necessary military targets.