Why I'm becoming more pro-choice

Originally posted by Sleepyguy
All I meant was that there are a lot of waiting families who are willing to go to great lengths to adopt a child. If financial burden is the reason a mother is considering abortion, adoption is an option that, rather than ending a life, provides that life with a family willing and eager to care for it.

I had been under the impression that 'waiting lists' existed for children waiting to be adopted, rather than for adults prepared to adopt... A quick look on google suggests the number is in the tens of thousands...

Originally posted by sh76
I had an epiphany the other night while trying to fall asleep.

First, some background. For almost 2 months now, I've been fighting a mild but annoying upper respiratory infection. It's nothing too severe and it comes and goes, but I've been bothered by some post-nasal drip here, a little bronchitis there, etc. I haven't missed much work time and basically I' ...[text shortened]... making the case that states should be allowed to simply outlaw abortions.

So in your case, or that of the 17 year old, what the hell is wrong with giving it up for adoption? Sure you have to carry the baby for 9 months but that's the end result of unprotected sex. The inconvieance of a pregnancy is not a justification for an abortion, and adoption is always an option once the child is born.

Originally posted by DrKF
I had been under the impression that 'waiting lists' existed for children waiting to be adopted, rather than for adults prepared to adopt... A quick look on google suggests the number is in the tens of thousands...

A new born will have absolutley no problem getting adopted. NONE.

Originally posted by Sleepyguy
All I meant was that there are a lot of waiting families who are willing to go to great lengths to adopt a child. If financial burden is the reason a mother is considering abortion, adoption is an option that, rather than ending a life, provides that life with a family willing and eager to care for it.

Sometimes. This is not unilateral.

I'm not disagreeing with your position about adoption in the least - my only point is that your perspective seems a bit rosy from my experience. Adoption is a long, hard slog, even if it turns out well. It often does not, and is always colossally expensive. I know some who have thrown their hands up and given up on the process, and for good reason.

Originally posted by NimzovichLarsen
A new born will have absolutley no problem getting adopted. NONE.

Disagree. See above.

Originally posted by Badwater
Disagree. See above.

you are wrong

Originally posted by NimzovichLarsen
A new born will have absolutley no problem getting adopted. NONE.

Well, there's figures easily available to show the number of children languishing on waiting lists to be adopted - I didn't see any breaking it down by age. Do you have any figures to support your assertion?

EDIT: out of interest, not necessarily because I think you are mistaken...

Originally posted by kmax87
You have yet to respond to this I posted earlier:-

Is the fertilised ovum that is denied the opportunity to maintain its attachment to the ovarian wall and develop into a new born due to the presence of inappropriate levels of eostrogen and progesteron imposed by oral contraception medication, also not human?

.
If someone can ...[text shortened]... response to offer life -support to the presence of that fertilised egg in her womb.

You raise some good points here. Perhaps this is why the Catholic church is opposed to contraception. In fact, I think it deserving of its own thread.

To be consistant, however, I believe that if an egg is fertilized it then is deserving of a life status. So perhaps I should revisit my views on contraception.

Originally posted by telerion
Should married couples abstain from the birth control pill if there is a risk that it will cause a fertilized egg to be naturally aborted rather than attaching to the uterine wall and developing further?

I will have to study a bit further on the subject. As I said, if the egg has been fertilized I beleive it is a human life. So perhaps my views on contraception will change. If what is being said is accurate, it is then understandable why the Catholic church opposes contraception.

Just think, people might return to life style of having to have children when they "hook up". Its frightening and barbaric, no?

Originally posted by whodey
I believe that if an egg is fertilized it then is deserving of a life status.

So you believe that the woman's right to choose ends with the fertilization of the egg?

Originally posted by DrKF
Well, there's figures easily available to show the number of children languishing on waiting lists to be adopted - I didn't see any breaking it down by age. Do you have any figures to support your assertion?

EDIT: out of interest, not necessarily because I think you are mistaken...

I think most would agree that, when adopting, most prefer the youngest possible child. Thus, putting a newborn up for adoption should be the easiest options. A quick google search revealed some stats on the %, by age, of those waiting to be adopted. I would argue that most of these kids waiting to be adopted, esp the older ones, were not a product of an unwanted pregnancy, but rather various home issues, crime, drugs, abuse, parental problems etc. My arguement to put an unwanted child up for adoption at birth would not lead to the foster care/waiting to be adopted issues that were mentioned in prev posts.


Age of Waiting Children on March 31, 1999 - 2% were less than one year old, 35% were 1-5 years, 37% were 6-10 years, 23% were 11-15 years, and 3% were 16-18 years old.
http://statistics.adoption.com/information/adoption-statistics-foster-care-1999.html

"Preschoolers Are More Likely to be Adopted Than Older Children
A disproportionate number of children age 1-5 are adopted--they comprise 45 percent of the children adopted from foster care, but 34 percent of waiting children. A similar marked difference can be found in the over-10 age group, which represents 17 percent of the children adopted from foster care, but 26 percent of the waiting foster children.[21] Researchers estimate that at 8 or 9 years of age, a child's likelihood of remaining in foster care becomes higher than the probability they will be adopted."
http://www.adoptioninstitute.org/FactOverview/foster.html
---This stat about preschoolers would be even higher if you were talking about newborns.

Originally posted by DrKF
I had been under the impression that 'waiting lists' existed for children waiting to be adopted, rather than for adults prepared to adopt... A quick look on google suggests the number is in the tens of thousands...

I was speaking of newborns. I think it is generally true that newborn's have families competing against each other for the chance to adopt, and the birth mother gets to choose among them. Waiting families create "adoption books" with family pictures, statements about their values and reason for wanting to adopt etc, like little brochures. Birth mothers go through the stack, choose a few families to interview if they wish, and make the choice.

Google "waiting families" for an idea of what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by FMF
So you believe that the woman's right to choose [b]ends with the fertilization of the egg?[/b]

her right to choose stopped when she decided to CHOOSE to have unprotected sex...or sex period. That was her choice. (please don't start the "well what if she is raped" arguement...I am obviously not talking about that)

Originally posted by NimzovichLarsen
her right to choose stopped when she decided to CHOOSE to have unprotected sex...or sex period. That was her choice. (please don't start the "well what if she is raped" arguement...I am obviously not talking about that)

How did you decide this? Presumably you want to pass laws about "sex" and about "her right to choose" and all the rest. Upon what do you base your specific opinions and why should anyone else pay you the slightest attention? What imperative drives you to think that your analysis should be the basis of any law? And, er... what has "well what if she is raped?" got to do with this?

Originally posted by Badwater
Sometimes. This is not unilateral.

I'm not disagreeing with your position about adoption in the least - my only point is that your perspective seems a bit rosy from my experience. Adoption is a long, hard slog, even if it turns out well. It often does not, and is always colossally expensive. I know some who have thrown their hands up and given up on the process, and for good reason.

The adoption process is a hard slog, yes. But that's from the point of view of the adoptive family, who has to first get a birth mother to find them worthy, come up with the money, travel in many cases, wait months for the birth and dodge the bullet of the birth mother changing her mind, endure background checks and surprise visits from social workers, hire an attorney to file the adoption petition, and then wait a year or more after the child is placed for a judge to finally seal the deal.

But the birth mother doesn't have to deal with all that crap. She has her own issues to deal with, of course. She has to endure pregnancy, child birth, and then the agonizing decision to really go through with the adoption. But she's not going to have trouble finding someone to adopt her newborn.