25 Jan 22
@vivify saidMy take on it is that the Baltic states will be next in the list after they’ve ticked the Ukraine box. Belarus is very pro Kremlin Russian satellite anyway they are amassing troops on the Belarus Ukraine border already.
Russia could march into the Baltic states at any time; so what difference would it make where Russia launches an attack from when they already have more than one border to do so? What's stopping Russia from marching into Belarus?
I do agree with you that taking over Ukraine would mean gaining military advantage that could be used to attack Europe; but that's the purpose of NATO, which Ukraine is not part of.
If I was a nato general I would rather face of against Russia in the Ukraine than on actual NATO soil, this would especially true if I was an Eastern European NATO general.
If diplomacy fails the best bet for NATO is continued military and economic aid for Ukraine so as to bog the Russians down there and bleed them into recalibrating there plans for the future. I do not believe that they have the stamina for a drawn out well funded and super well armed insurgency.
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25 Jan 22
@vivify saidBelarus is already a Stal... sorry, Putinist satelite state. No need to march in there, Lukashenko will just let them take the presidential train.
Russia could march into the Baltic states at any time; so what difference would it make where Russia launches an attack from when they already have more than one border to do so? What's stopping Russia from marching into Belarus?
I do agree with you that taking over Ukraine would mean gaining military advantage that could be used to attack Europe; but that's the purpose of NATO, which Ukraine is not part of.
It's called "defense in depth". It's rather important in internet technology, as well. Basically, it's better to prevent a problem outside your own borders than to defend them on the inside.
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25 Jan 22
@vivify saidWhich is exactly why we need to stop Putin now, because if we believe in his honesty as Trump did, it will escalate into a full-blown invasion of all of Ukraine.
No, we'll be fighting Russia directly if this escalates.
25 Jan 22
@shallow-blue saidOr how about pledging not to put nukes in the Ukraine to avoid war?
Which is exactly why we need to stop Putin now, because if we believe in his honesty as Trump did, it will escalate into a full-blown invasion of all of Ukraine.
Too simple?
25 Jan 22
@averagejoe1 saidSo only warmongers should discuss war, right?
@vivify
It is laughable, liberals, mostly being pacifist, weighing in on war strategy and tactics.
You are too stupid to debate.
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25 Jan 22
@metal-brain saidToo stupid. It's not about nukes, it's about Putin's ambitions as the new Czar Of All Russias. As has been clear for years and years and years. No mere promise will stop him from expanding his empire by force - only a threat of counter-force will do that.
Or how about pledging not to put nukes in the Ukraine to avoid war?
Too simple?
He's a bully. He won't stop bullying if you promise to play nice, he'll only stop bullying if you make him realise you won't.
25 Jan 22
@suzianne saidExactly. Which is why I believe Trump would actually let Russia waltz into the Ukraine.
Except that Tucker Carlson and more than half of Trump's base actually supports Russia.
1 - Protecting the Ukraine not in line with "America first"
2 - Putin has dirt on Trump
Which is why Tucker started spewing his narrative last week.
To protect Trump from any political damage around anything Russia.
That was my point.
@shallow-blue saidRight, like the Cuban missile crisis was not about nukes. Turkey had nothing to do with it, right?
Too stupid. It's not about nukes, it's about Putin's ambitions as the new Czar Of All Russias. As has been clear for years and years and years. No mere promise will stop him from expanding his empire by force - only a threat of counter-force will do that.
He's a bully. He won't stop bullying if you promise to play nice, he'll only stop bullying if you make him realise you won't.
Learn some history. The US put nukes in Turkey. That is what started the whole thing.
25 Jan 22
@ponderable saidThe US is a country with 5% of the world's population consuming 25% of the world's natural resources.
You could reframe the question into:
Why should the US try to contain Russia?
That is a hegemonial question and should be answered the same as:
Why should the US defend Taiwan?
or reframed:
Why should the US try to contain China?
This disproportionate consumption which is probably the main driver of America's economic power leads to anti-American sentiment.
Now we have a situation where a country like China is challenging the US for a share of this consumption.
Of course, America will try to contain China.
Russia is a medium sized economic power (GDP smaller than Italy) loaded to the eyeballs with weaponry.
This is a global problem, not a local problem.
America has no issues protecting S Korea.
So why the fuss about the Ukraine ?
@shallow-blue saidI'll agree if this is not a U.S.-led effort. If Putin is really such a threat that needs to be stopped, surely the European members of NATO will rise up and initiate the fight.....right?
Which is exactly why we need to stop Putin now, because if we believe in his honesty as Trump did, it will escalate into a full-blown invasion of all of Ukraine.
Let Europe decide that this is an urgent issue, not the U.S.
25 Jan 22
@vivify saidThis kind of narrative has happened before.
I'll agree if this is not a U.S.-led effort. If Putin is really such a threat that needs to sbe stopped, surely the European members of NATO will rise up and initiate the fight.....right?
Let Europe decide that this is an urgent issue, not the U.S.
And the appeasement led to Hitler spreading across Europe.
And American isolationism was directly responsible for Pearl Harbor.
The Russian threat is a global problem, not a local problem !!
25 Jan 22
@mghrn55 saidGee, I had no idea that this grotesque level of paranoia had survived the fall of the USSR.
This kind of narrative has happened before.
And the appeasement led to Hitler spreading across Europe.
And American isolationism was directly responsible for Pearl Harbor.
The Russian threat is a global problem, not a local problem !!
The Russians willing and anxious to sweep to the Channel sounds soooooooooooo 1950.
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25 Jan 22
@metal-brain saidIf you think Chrushev had the same psychopathic personality as Putin, you are deluded. Putin is like Stalin, not like Chrushev.
Right, like the Cuban missile crisis was not about nukes. Turkey had nothing to do with it, right?
Learn some history. The US put nukes in Turkey. That is what started the whole thing.
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25 Jan 22
@vivify saidIt already is. It's England which is retreating (partly because Boris is like Trump), not Europe.
I'll agree if this is not a U.S.-led effort. If Putin is really such a threat that needs to be stopped, surely the European members of NATO will rise up and initiate the fight.....right?
Let Europe decide that this is an urgent issue, not the U.S.