Originally posted by seraphimvultureSeraph.: " Some do it just to enjoy the reaction they get, some do it because they trully believe whatever crap they are saying, but there is no way to put an end to it."
What no one here seems to be pointing out is the fact that the Internet provides us all with confidentiality and at the same time the freedom to ridicule and/or insult anyone we choose without any real consequences. Lots of people use Internet chatrooms and forums as portals for their prejudices, racism, sexism, and any hatred that they cannot unleas ...[text shortened]... the chess board, for my rating would never forgive me! 😉 Hope it was worth the read.
-Kev
Oh yes we can !
... and besides that ... There isn't just sexism, racism, etc. to fight. Also the politically correct "religionism" can be found everywhere you look. However not very often noticed by those who fervently, justly and rightfully fight sexism and racism I must add. It is just too common, too politically correct and too widespread to notice sometimes.
It sometimes disguises itself as "humour", but usually it comes as what it really is; prejudice, hatred, stupidity, ignorance, arrogance and superbia.
I may not come as a surprise to us that this is the same stuff sexism and racism is made of.
Originally posted by ncrosby
But the point is that unless they are talking about personal affronts either publicly or privately, then I have been witness to the same content that they have.
the point you are making though doesn't apply. you haven't witnessed it and therefore you seem to be minimizing its reality. the affronts needn't be specific personal ones either.
couple of examples:
1) my jewish friend was never experienced abuse from the nazis - should he conclude that nazism was never a problem?
2) i have never experienced racial discrimination because of the colour of my skin - should i conclude that racism doesn't exist?
3) i had an interesting experience at looneyversity. a fellow student, Sandy, who was black, mentioned racial discrimination to me. i glibly told him, "what are you talking about? slaves were freed a long time ago and the civil rights movement ended in the 60s and this is canada anyway!" he got quite upset with me. you see, i had read the books so i knew what had happened, but not what was happening.
4) a female friend of mine, mabel, in the 70s, who was physically quite attractive in the societal sense of that era, lived on her own in an appartment and one day complained about men. the ones she dated were boorish (she called them "hosers" ) and apparently the ones she hadn't were even worse. naturally, since i was a paragon of gentlemanliness couldn't understand what she was talking about - it surprised me that she endured ridicule, humiliation even a bit of violence. as i sat, somewhat dumbfounded wondering if this was some sort of feminist rant, she said, "you men just have no idea what we women go through, do you?" admittedly, this statement is a double sweeping generalization, but i really didn't have the faintest idea what women go through - and i still wouldn't if i didn't associate with those who did.
Originally posted by ncrosby
Here's an example in an opposite light. Not the best example, but I am pressed for time.
i agree this is not a good example - it is basically poking morbid fun at this particular guy who simply has his sequencing mixed up a bit.
let's change it to the following:
This reminds me of the joke about the dumb blonde guy who finds his wife with another man. He grabs a gun and says he is gonna kill all three of them. But because he is blonde, he starts with himself...
now it is still a joke right? not all that funny, but i did the best i can.
is it offensive? to some yes, to others no - again as always.
however, what is the commentary it is making? no longer focussing on a hapless individual, we extend our enjoyment to:
1) blondes
2) men
furthermore, the atmosphere is created in which blondes and/or men can regarded as stupid or even suicidal. does that mean that because of my joke, you will view blondes or men or even blonde men that way. probably not. in fact, i don't think you'll even tell the joke to the next blonde man you meet.
however, if we keep accepting this sort of thing, the damage does get done insiduously, but for certain.
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by ivanhoeEveryone seems to have missed my point when I said "...but there is no way to put an end to it." I simply meant there is no way to put an end to it on the Internet, where there is literally countless places for people to spew their hate. I don't doubt for a moment that RHP can become hate-free! This site has already worked wonders, and I have all the faith in the world in Russ and Chrismo and the rest of the administrators here! 🙂
Seraph.: " Some do it just to enjoy the reaction they get, some do it because they trully believe whatever crap they are saying, but there is no way to put an end to it."
Oh yes we can !
... and besides that ... There isn't just sexism, racism, etc. to fight. Also the politically correct "religionism" can be found everywhere you look. However no ...[text shortened]... ay not come as a surprise to us that this is the same stuff sexism and racism is made of.
-Kev
Originally posted by seraphimvultureexcellent clarification, kev!
Everyone seems to have missed my point when I said [b]"...but there is no way to put an end to it." I simply meant there is no way to put an end to it on the Internet, where there is literally countless places for peopl ...[text shortened]... nd Chrismo and the rest of the administrators here! 🙂
-Kev[/b]
i completely agree and believe as you do, without a doubt, that we can work even more wonders!
when we see ourselves as a community, we can accomplish many things such as
be supportive of each other,
be respectful of others,
be kind to others
and as we accomplish those things,
as we do change 'nearly everyone' to 'everyone' as Breaca said (amongst all her other beautiful and profound statements),
we actually do become a family - all of us!!
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by ncrosbyI don’t believe that the content can be separated from the words. Every writer has more than enough words to choose from, to satisfy even the most exotic and colourful of imaginations, and the more creative and intelligent that author is, the wider, deeper and more diverse their pool of choice will be.
Sometimes you have to look at the content more than the words. Do I feel that Cribs is in any way trying to degrade women with his posts? Has Cribs ever, by his words, come across as trying to degrade women. No. If he were, THEN I would be offended.
ncrosby🙂
If we acknowledge that a post is conceived, constructed and well thought out, then we must also accept that the all of the words are chosen with deliberation and for specific purposes. Mr. Cribs is clever, inventive and skilled enough to craft superb posts that would be funny, entertaining and contain social comment without always using such unflattering images of women to amuse his audience. He is a great writer, I love his hip-hop styling but he should be striving to enlighten the people who enjoy his word play rather than playing to the lowest common denominator in the gallery.
The RHP community must be aware that: words don’t hurt people, writers do
Breaca
This is not about sexism, it is about taste and the wishes of the majority.
Russ instructed me to change the name of my clan from W*nkers R Us to Winkers R Us (It has a one eyed sort of charm) due to complaints, Fair comment
But Giant Juggies clan are free to keep their name and clan logo. Fair comment, (great picture too)
the moral is that we like thinking of women in a sexual manner but not men. That is life, like it or (coughs) lump it babe
Originally posted by claretnblueActually, that says more about who "we" are in this context.
This is not about sexism, it is about taste and the wishes of the majority... the moral is that we like thinking of women in a sexual manner but not men.
Which is a great part of what this thread is about.
Originally posted by claretnblueThe fact that there is a clan named Giant Juggies on RHP says a great deal about how women can be used for gratification on what is a family chess site and how our community too readily accepts such things.
This is not about sexism, it is about taste and the wishes of the majority.
Russ instructed me to change the name of my clan from W*nkers R Us to Winkers R Us (It has a one eyed sort of charm) due to complaints, Fair comment
But Giant Juggies clan are free to keep their name and clan logo. Fair comment, (great picture too)
the moral is that we li ...[text shortened]... thinking of women in a sexual manner but not men. That is life, like it or (coughs) lump it babe
Breasts are a part of the human body, not a separate commodity. Breast size or shape or colours, although maybe pleasing to the eye, do not constitute the whole person, or even a tiny amount of that person’s value or importance.
I am sure that clans formed to celebrate women (or men) would be welcome on the site but they should accept that everyone is different, everyone is beautiful and that people of any gender should not have to conform to look or behave in a way that is demanded by those with power. Giant Juggies Clan are suggesting that a woman’s only significance is proportional to the size of her breasts and more than that they are dismissing all of her true qualities as a person and as a female.
We already live in a world where more and more people suffer health problems because of relentless pressure to look a certain way. Young women with eating disorders can be seen in every school in the country and those that escape that situation are forever bombarded from the media and society to look and dress in a false way to fulfil someone else’s expectations.
When I am older should I stop healthy eating until I am painfully thin and can wear all the latest designer fashions? Should I have silicon implants to pump my breasts up to ridiculous proportions just to look like a fantasy figure for shallow men? Or will I find a society where I can be myself and people will like me for what I am and what I do.
I know what I would prefer because
“ I am beautiful no matter what they say “
I think that it is natural and right for any person to find another attractive, but surely they should be looking far deeper than the colour of their skin or their eyes, looking much closely than the length of their hair or their legs and much more importantly we shouldn’t judge a person’s worth by factors based on dimensions alone, should we?
I am sure that even members of Claretnblue’s clan would agree that size is unimportant
Breaca.
Holy cow, it's just the name of a clan on a chess website! Would it be fairer if I started a clan called Little *its, to even it out and all the women on the site won't feel that chess playing men are only interested in large breasts? I'm sorry, I think that's about the rudest thing I've ever said on this site, but come on, that's going a little overboard isn't it?
ncrosby🙂
Originally posted by ncrosbyYes, it sure is. The whole Sesame Street Squad (SSS) is.
Holy cow, it's just the name of a clan on a chess website! Would it be fairer if I started a clan called Little *its, to even it out and all the women on the site won't feel that chess playing men are only interested in large breasts? I'm sorry, I think that's about the rudest thing I've ever said on this site, but come on, that's going a little overboard isn't it?
ncrosby🙂
Dr. Cribs
Originally posted by ncrosbyMuch as it goes against the grain I agree with Breaca on this issue. Funny how you were brave enough to use the word ( * )it but not ( * )ock , or is it only women who can be used for titillation.
Holy cow, it's just the name of a clan on a chess website! Would it be fairer if I started a clan called Little *its, to even it out and all the women on the site won't feel that chess playing men are only interested in large breasts? I ...[text shortened]... come on, that's going a little overboard isn't it?
ncrosby🙂
Please don’t tell me that I am going soft, my reputation is already getting smaller with each post
Originally posted by claretnblueActually I used *it because she based her whole argument around the Giant Juggies. If she would have included W*nkers in her argument I would have had no qualms with using *ock.
Much as it goes against the grain I agree with Breaca on this issue. Funny how you were brave enough to use the word ( T )it but not ( C )ock , or is it only women who can be used for titillation.
Please don’t tell me that I am going soft, my reputation is already getting smaller with each post
Everyone look at Claretnblue's post! HE'S GOING SOFT!!!! 😀😀😀
Really Claretnblue, I never would have expected such a post out of you! 😲 lol
ncrosby🙂
Originally posted by ncrosbyI'm not soft I just haven't been feeling myself today,
Actually I used *it because she based her whole argument around the Giant Juggies. If she would have included W*nkers in her argument I would have had no qualms with using *ock.
Everyone look at Claretnblue's post! HE'S GOING SOFT! ...[text shortened]... er would have expected such a post out of you! 😲 lol
ncrosby🙂
I'm glad you would have no qualms about using *ock,
🙂
Originally posted by claretnblueI love using *ock.... In know.... I am very bad.
I'm not soft I just haven't been feeling myself today,
I'm glad you would have no qualms about using *ock,
🙂
RHP is a mini version of the world, isn't it? We have people of all ages, races, religions, ethnoicities, cultures. We have really nice people, cranky people, and well, really unpleasant people (not naming names, you know who you are 😀)
One difference about RHP, though, is that we don't have as many women as men. This does not mean that women are treated with less respect, or that they are sexually harassed, though. I would have to say that, for the most part, women here are treated very well. I certainly have been. When I am insulted in a game, I either resign the game, give it right back to him, or stop talking all together. Just like all women, I am used to dealing with some form of sexual harassment. Unfortunately, it goes with the territory. Women simply have to learn how to handle male behavior. I am not condoning it, nor am I saying that all men do it, but it is out there. It is very difficult to legislate behavior. So, short of booting any pervy men
(😀: again, you know who you are 😀😛), women of RHP have to deal with them as they do in the real world. I find RHP to be so much better than other chess sites such as yahoo, where 8 out of 10 games come with an invitaion to cyber.
Originally posted by elvendreamgirlit is not difficult to legislate behaviour at all - in fact, it is done all the time.
Just like all women, I am used to dealing with some form of sexual harassment. Unfortunately, it goes with the territory. Women simply have to learn how to handle male behavior. I am not condoning it, nor am I saying that all men do it, but it is out there. It is very difficult to legislate behavior.
what is more difficult is the enforcement.
for instance, RHP has legislation in the form of the TOS.
however, trying to get the mods to enforce it is another story - they are volunteers and they can't be everywhere. then when some of them actually do the job of removing posts or people, they are sometimes harrassed with the 'you have violated my freedom of screech' line.
sexual harrassment has no business being in anyone's territory. however, you are completely correct that women should learn to handle bad behaviour. they should not accept it because someone tells them they are being trivial or that it was just a joke.
what is more correct is that we work together to eliminate that bad behaviour. notice i have said 'bad' behaviour rather than 'male' behaviour, because some women can be just as victimizing towards women as some men.
progress has been made though, because some courageous women, like Breaca, have spoken out against stereotyping, humiliation, harrassment and abuse.
when you speak out against this sort of thing people do listen and behaviour does change.
in friendship,
prad