Jezus Christ. Did he really exist ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
"I wonder, then, why you continue to try to speak meaningfully about God?" Bbarr

That is a very important question.We cannot get to know God by means or methods of our own. That's impossible. I agree with you on that. The only way we ...[text shortened]... ts of His Being are true and therefore acceptable.

I agree that revelatory experiences are important. Zen Buddhists, Sufi Muslims, Advaita Vedantists, and Christian Mystics all agree that the fruits of meditation or contemplation are revelatory. I disagree, however, that the content of such experiences is of the form 'God is X', where X is some predicate like Loving, Powerful, Eternal, etc. I don't think that our contact with the divine can ever be represented accurately by our conceptual repetoire. Hence, if a person comes away from a revelatory experience thinking, e.g., "God just revealed to me that he is loving", or "God just revealed to me that he is the creator and sustainer of everything", then I think that person has, at best, obscured the experience by conceptualizing it or, at worst, succeeded merely in self-delusion. This is why I think that it is both meaningless and counter-productive to talk about God or his nature. Our concepts can't capture the divine, they can't even paint a likeness of the divine. As soon as you begin attributing properties to the God, you embroil yourself in contradiction, as the problem of evil so clearly shows.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Would you like to join the Apostles? Seriously.

Thankyou for that kind invitation.My position is I think one clan/one player and I am in veggies and happy.If I get cast out of veggies I will ask you to accept me.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Would you like to join the Apostles? Seriously.

Blessings over 🙂

Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker

Originally posted by royalchicken
That sounds like overt proselytizing because of the 'yet'. I don't object, but I don't see why I should have faith in God, and not, for example, in the belief that any given fellow RHPer is the Messiah.

Royalchicken,

You are so smart and the wish to show that to everybody makes you
miss the things I'm trying to say to you. Your vanity makes you
blind and deaf to understand these important things ....... and you don't even care ... you just laugh about it.

Originally posted by Feivel
One question, make that two mislead, since an anagram of misslead is - is sad elm - are you really a tree? Then again another anagram is - is damsel - so another question would be are you in distress?

Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker

I have branches everywhere and my roots are firm.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Royalchicken,

You are so smart and the wish to show that to everybody makes you
miss the things I'm trying to say to you. Your vanity makes you
blind and deaf to understand these important things ....... and you don't even care ... you just laugh about it.

I don't understand what you mean. I read what you posted before. I don't understand why faith is applicable in some cases and reason in others. How do we determine when to believe and when to reason?

(good anagrams, Feivel. Respect 😀!)

Originally posted by Feivel
One question, make that two mislead, since an anagram of misslead is - is sad elm - are you really a tree? Then again another anagram is - is damsel - so another question would be are you in distress?

Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker

Feivel,

I noticed that you do not end your posts anymore with "Amici Sumus".

I think it was a wise decision to get rid of that misleading statement.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Feivel,

I noticed that you do not end your posts anymore with "Amici Sumus".

I think it was a wise decision to get rid of that misleading statement.

Amici Sumus my dear ivanhoe. I am still waiting for a signature to be added to the forums 🙂

Amici Sumus 🙂

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Feivel,

I noticed that you do not end your posts anymore with "Amici Sumus".

I think it was a wise decision to get rid of that misleading statement.

Why are you trying to turn a thread into a personal attack for your sadistic pleasure? Is it because you have to attack in public because you are unable to do so in our chess games?

Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker who is confused by ivanhoe

Originally posted by bbarr
I agree that revelatory experiences are important. Zen Buddhists, Sufi Muslims, Advaita Vedantists, and Christian Mystics all agree that the fruits of meditation or contemplation are revelatory. I disagree, however, that the content of such experiences is of the form 'God is X', where X is some predicate like Loving, Powerful, Eternal, etc. I don't think ...[text shortened]... es to the God, you embroil yourself in contradiction, as the problem of evil so clearly shows.

Bbarr,

I was talking of God's Revelation in (through) His Creation, the History of the relationship with His Bride, the Jewish people, described in what the Christians call the Old Testament, His Revelation in (through) his Son, Jezus Christ, described in the New Testament and the Revelation in(through) His True Church, cristallised in the teachings of the Church.

There are also personal revelations, but I do not advise anybody to start at University when you do not even have started Kindergarten ...
Personally I am very critical and sceptical when revelations of that kind are presented to us, but I also think that God can use this way to communicate with people if He chooses to do so (Lourdes, Fatima).

Bbarr: "Our concepts can't capture the divine, they can't even paint a likeness of the divine."

I agree fully with you. Only God can tell us what He is like and even then we will not be able to fully comprehend His Being. That's not my fantasy, but you can read this in The New Testament. That is one of the reasons why we cannot reach any definite conclusions, using the human methods of reason and logic, about the Three-O-God and the problems concerning free will and evil.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Bbarr,

I was talking of God's Revelation in (through) His Creation, the History of the relationship with His Bride, the Jewish people, described in what the Christians call the Old Testament, His Revelation in (through) his Son, Jezus Christ, described in the New Testament and the Revelation in(through) His True Church, cristallised in the teachings of t ...[text shortened]... of reason and logic, about the Three-O-God and the problems concerning free will and evil.

Can you answer my previous question please? Please explain how to determine when to reason and when to have faith?

Originally posted by royalchicken
Can you answer my previous question please? Please explain how to determine when to reason and when to have faith?

Royalchicken,

I'll have to think on how I'm gonna present that to you and above all whát I'm going to present to you.Right now I'm very tired and it's getting late or early if you like. At the moment it's five o'clock in the morning and I really should be getting some sleep.

By the way: Congratulations on the occasion of your 16th birthday ...
I wish you everything you need in life !

....... and for starters, just for the sake of meditation :

Blaise Pascal:

"Reason's last step is the recognition that there are an infinite number of things which are beyond it."

Pensees. 1670.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Royalchicken,

I'll have to think on how I'm gonna present that to you and above all whát I'm going to present to you.Right now I'm very tired and it's getting late or early if you like. At the moment it's five o'clock in the morning and I really should be getting some sleep.

By the way: Congratulations on the occasion of your 16th birthday ...
...[text shortened]... gnition that there are an infinite number of things which are beyond it."

Pensees. 1670.

Congratulations on the occasion of your 16th birthday ...I wish you everything you need in life !

Thank you, Ivanhoe 😀!

Have a nice sleep 😴.

Originally posted by royalchicken
Can you answer my previous question please? Please explain how to determine when to reason and when to have faith?

That's simple, Mark. You have faith when confronted with what your reason recognizes as countervailing evidence to your religious assertions. Someone says "God loves us like a father loves his children", I point out the child in the hospital with inoperable throat cancer. Someone recognizes that, indeed, that seems like evidence against the claim that God is loving, yet that someone continues to believe in virtue of their faith. Faith is, at bottom, the unwillingness to revise cherished beliefs. It is a resistance to the demands of rationality. In short, it is the pinnacle of irrationality.

Originally posted by bbarr
That's simple, Mark. You have faith when confronted with what your reason recognizes as countervailing evidence to your religious assertions. Someone says "God loves us like a father loves his children", I point out the child in the hospital with inoperable throat cancer. Someone recognizes that, indeed, that seems like evidence against the claim that Go ...[text shortened]... is a resistance to the demands of rationality. In short, it is the pinnacle of irrationality.

Yes, I know that. But surely you recognize that a faithful person does not, by the explanation you gave, count consistency of method of thought as a priority. Thus my question is simple to someone whose ovverriding test is rationality (and hence someone who cannot have total faith), but is meaningful to someone who wishes to try to admit faith and reason into the same outlook.

I have an argument against this attempt, so my question was really rhetorical.

~RC, blower of his own cover.