General
18 Dec 20
24 Dec 20
@relentless-red saidWhere in the Joker does this happen?
@hakima
My issue is the misuse of the term psychosis to make violent characters in movies sound more exciting.
@divegeester saidSee my early post where I explain why I would see this as different to Cuckoo's nest which I loved.
How long were you actually a fully qualified psychiatrist?
Also (as I asked you previously but ignored) how come you say you “loved Cuckoo Nest” but weren’t aware of what the professional clinical body thought of this movie? Which wasn’t “love” by any means according to what I’ve read.
Not sure why the detail matters but, Consultant Psychiatrist just over 20 years. Junior doctor 10 years (9 years of which in psychiatric teams). Registered as a Psychotherapist before becoming a Consultant Psychiatrist. FMF asks was I senior to psychiatrists, I was a clinical director for a while although that isn't really relevant.
It is a genuine issue for people who have been labelled psychotic that the term is misunderstood as meaning they might be dangerous. I believe movies like Joker perpetuate that. The violence in Cuckoo's nest was by contrast attributed to the way the psychiatric staff and ward had left people feeling and I thought it was a valid discussion of problems within the psychiatric wards of that era, albeit done be creating extreme caricatures.
@relentless-red saidThe clinical community at the time seem to hold a differing opinion than you regarding the way psychosis was portrayed in the movie and the impact it had on patients requiring treatments, I.e. scaring them.
See my early post where I explain why I would see this as different to Cuckoo's nest which I loved.
@relentless-red saidI only ask because I remember us chatting in a series of PMs and you telling me you went on a 6 month course to obtain a suitable qualification (words to that effect).
Not sure why the detail matters but, Consultant Psychiatrist just over 20 years. Junior doctor 10 years (9 years of which in psychiatric teams). Registered as a Psychotherapist before becoming a Consultant Psychiatrist.
@relentless-red saidThis does not seem to be general opinion of the clinical psychiatric community at the time, far from it.
The violence in Cuckoo's nest was by contrast attributed to the way the psychiatric staff and ward had left people feeling and I thought it was a valid discussion of problems within the psychiatric wards of that era, albeit done be creating extreme caricatures.
@FMF
Which Version Of The Joker Is The Most Psychotic? | CBR
https://www.cbr.com/psychotic-versions-of-the-joker
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/oct/21/joker-mental-illness...
However, severe mental health conditions, such as psychotic illnesses, remain shrouded in stigma and are consistently misrepresented and misunderstood. ... Interesting, then, that Joker’s ...
Just search the internet for matters of fact in this argument. You will find the misuse of 'psychotic' is an important live argument and not a strawman.
@divegeester saidI prefer to think for myself.
This does not seem to be general opinion of the clinical psychiatric community at the time, far from it.
@divegeester saidI don't remember saying that, but if I did I was probably being facetious or tongue in cheek, our conversations do have a combative quality.
I only ask because I remember us chatting in a series of PMs and you telling me you went on a 6 month course to obtain a suitable qualification (words to that effect).
@relentless-red saidYeah, but where exactly in the Joker do you claim this happens?
@FMF
Which Version Of The Joker Is The Most Psychotic? | CBR
https://www.cbr.com/psychotic-versions-of-the-joker
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/oct/21/joker-mental-illness...
However, severe mental health conditions, such as psychotic illnesses, remain shrouded in stigma and are consistently misrepresented and misunderstood. ... Interesting, then, that J ...[text shortened]... argument. You will find the misuse of 'psychotic' is an important live argument and not a strawman.
@relentless-red saidPerhaps the same can be said of Dr Kamran Ahmed, surely?
I prefer to think for myself.
@fmf saidOf course, but it is my right to hold the opinion that you are pursuing relentlessly. This is my last post now as I think I need to take a break from this thread for Xmas. I hope you have plans in place that you will enjoy.
Perhaps the same can be said of Dr Kamran Ahmed, surely?
I imagine from your question that you are already aware that the major misrepresentation was via the frequent enactment of symptoms associated with psychosis rather than their frequent naming. This certainly did not cause the person I supported not to notice that the central theme was that the character was depicted as psychotic. So let's not get into where and when to score silly debating points. I am perfectly entitled to my opinion that The Joker was an unhelpful misrepresentation of psychosis. I do not understand your compulsion to question it to this extent, but be careful because questioning a person to this extent and bringing them back to the questions to defend themselves is rightly named as Sealioning.
Merry Xmas.
@relentless-red saidThis sounds awfully vague.
the major misrepresentation was via the frequent enactment of symptoms associated with psychosis rather than their frequent naming. This certainly did not cause the person I supported not to notice that the central theme was that the character was depicted as psychotic.
@relentless-red saidMerry Christmas.
Of course, but it is my right to hold the opinion that you are pursuing relentlessly. This is my last post now as I think I need to take a break from this thread for Xmas. I hope you have plans in place that you will enjoy.
I imagine from your question that you are already aware that the major misrepresentation was via the frequent enactment of symptoms associated w ...[text shortened]... nging them back to the questions to defend themselves is rightly named as Sealioning.
Merry Xmas.
When you come back, have a go at the question I raised about your peculiar assertions about "professional educators".
@fmf saidFor your benefit here is one extra bonus post.
Merry Christmas.
When you come back, have a go at the question I raised about your peculiar assertions about "professional educators".
This is blatant Sealioning as you make a statement that requires defending:
'When you come back, have a go at the question I raised about your peculiar assertions about "professional educators".'
In fact I described one specific example of a college tutor becoming very concerned that there was a risk of violence to be managed simply because the student had a psychosis diagnosis.
If this posting style persists I will have to return to the position of completely ignoring you. Nothing personal, but that is the best response to Sealioning.
@relentless-red saidI remember quite clearly you telling me you undertook a 6 month course although I cannot remember what you precisely said it was for. I remember you telling me you were not long-term into psychiatric care, hence my asking how long you had been fully qualified, and I suppose hence you not answering.
I don't remember saying that, but if I did I was probably being facetious or tongue in cheek, our conversations do have a combative quality.
The exchange I am referring was pre our combative relationship; you were being quite open and so was I. You weren’t being “tongue-in-cheek” or “facetious” either, it was a quite balanced exchange.